Posted by Star the magic vegan at 02/13/17 21:15:14I also seek to overcome ignorance in all instances. Let us begin with the ignorance surrounding the pagan and Celtic religions you have brought to our attention.
If we are going to speak English, we should do it correctly:
Definition of pagan – Merriam Webster
1. heathen; a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2. one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
Definition of Celtic
1. : of, relating to, or characteristic of the Celts or their languages
Definition of celt
1. : a prehistoric stone or metal implement shaped like a chisel or ax head
The truth is that if you are going to present yourself as a pagan or a Celtic practitioner, there will be some backlash. It is a term used by Christians and Muslims to indicate a person to be executed in accordance with their laws.
Both pagan and Celts seem to lack any meaning in the dictionary, and yet their historic mark is found in all the great museums of the world. The idea of an ax is more significant than one may think at first glance. The ax is the most important tool for any village at the time. It would assist in building of homes, gathering of firewood, planting of crops, building of boats, making of fences and the making of weapons.
According to Hindu history, the Celts practiced a regional form of the Vedic religion that was pre-Hindu and that was practiced throughout the entire world during the time of the advent of Parashurama Avatar. Interestingly, Parashurama is always seen carrying an ax. The archeological evidence does not argue against this case. The Celts were throughout Europe and may have been the longest standing civilization in European history extending from Russia to Ireland and beyond.
The problem is that although some names can be found on stones, we really do not have a good historic record of what the Celtic religion was except for the Hindu description. The Vedic tradition was for the Raja or King, but in Europe it was for the Chieftain. Ceremonies were done largely to assure contracts would be upheld or the failed parties would face certain death. Ceremonies and sacrifices were made to gods and goddesses, festivals were held and people integrated this system into the planting calendar to assure better harvests. The circle was a universal symbol for Celts as it is to the Native Americans, Hindu, Buddhists, Chinese, and others. These were largely clan oriented matriarchies when it came to daily activities but final decisions were usually held by men in counsels for bigger issues and the Chieftain was the final arbiter only when necessary.
There is no way to practice the Celtic religion any longer because it is a lost tradition. The same is true of Roman and Greek paganism. To call one’s self a neo pagan or a neo Celt does not help much. The Celts were not vegan societies and they were brutal warriors. This age ended for a reason. The same is true of the pagan epoch where immorality, decadence, human and animal sacrifice and war reigned supreme in their non-vegan societies. To veganize these historic religions is like veganizing hieroglyphics; you can do it, but why?
Posted by Hellhound at 02/13/17 22:51:18I understand that the ancient Celts where brutal warriors but so where most cultures. Most cultures at some point in history did something terrible but that does not mean that those cultures our bad and have nothing to offer us. I know that paganism died hundreds of years ago but it is not all lost and in the recent past few years there has been a revival.
Posted by Star the magic vegan at 02/14/17 01:10:48
I don't think you fully understand the depravity of the ancient pagan cultures. They regularly made animal and human sacrifices, owned slaves, held drunken orgies, operated the Colosseum, tortured, waged wars and supported a thriving prostitution sub-culture. They also were in many instances cannibals.
Yes, the Celtic religion is being revived largely by Anglos seeking some sort of historic cultural context. Christianity destroyed much of the Anglo European cultural historic roots. For example, the multilingual Celtic cultures were reduced in Europe to a handful of languages by the spreading Christian culture. In pre-Christian Europe there were thousands of languages, in some places, each valley had its own dialect. Christianity is not an indigenous religion of Europe nor of the Anglos. Christianity is a mid Eastern religion and culture that was imported to conquer the European region much as Islam is conquering Europe today.
The problem is that the chain to the past has been broken. It would almost be better to create a new religion rather than trying to reconstruct something that can not be explained correctly due to the end of that epoch. Instead, I think the Anglo community should look further to the past and investigate the Vedic culture which is the source of the Celtic culture. English, German, Russian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Lithuanian, Ukrainian and Italian among many other languages are all dialects of Sanskrit which is their originating grandmother language. Basque, Hungarian and Gaelic are not Sanskrit based languages. This shows the pervading presence of the once world Vedic empire.
The ancient Vedic empire has also disappeared. Its originating place was along the Saraswati river, and when this river dried up, the originating Vedic adherents migrated to the Ganges and began to integrate local beliefs into modern Hinduism. Truly it is for the best these ancient cultures ended; they were not peaceful and they were not vegan.
Today the Anglo European malaise can be solved not by a racial purity movement, but rather from a global harmony movement. This is why I endorse a new practice that fuses the most evolved and advanced philosophies on Earth under a vegan banner. These evolved philosophies are Buddhism, Hinduism and the Jain religion, each rooted in Sanskrit traditions that share a common root with Anglo culture.
Posted by Hellhound at 02/20/17 22:18:47I wish that I had never mentioned that I am pagan because you seem to be more focused on that than what I'm trying to say, which is that everyone should be respected for whatever religion or culture they have chosen as long as they live a compassionate lifestyle. I believe that there are many roads to enlightenment and everyone has a different spiritual path to follow. No spiritual paths are better than the other. I personally live in Ireland and I feel very connected to the Celtic past there, I pray to Celtic gods and visit ancient pagan sacred sights. I am aware of the horrors that have happened though history by the Celtic peoples but I do not believe that those horrors that happened were a result of paganism, I believe it was the result of bad people doing bad stuff. People part of other religions have done horrible things but that does not mean that the religion they where following has no value.
Posted by Star the magic vegan at 02/21/17 09:51:56
'Tis your sidhe cup lassie.
The only reason I had discussed the history of your Celtic and Pagan religion is because this is a wisdom topic of the HappyCow forum, and you are addressing the failure of ignorance. There is nothing more ignorant than complete denial. After all, at the root of 'ignorant' is the term 'ignore.'
You claim to want everyone to have an open permissive value system and accept all religious values. I for one am not that ignorant. Many religions commit atrocities. You may be right that individuals perpetrated these gruesome acts, but when they become institutional and cultural norms, we may judge those religions as seriously flawed and needing reformation and revision or perhaps termination.
The Celtic and Pagan cultures have had quite a large influence on European culture. For you to want to dismiss the truth about these far reaching beliefs and skip to the idea of peace and love almost makes you as palatable as a medieval Christian Church that hopes no one hears the torture chamber during communion.
Pagans of Babylon were renowned for sacrificing infants in a horrible way, burning them in the red hot arms of their god's statues' which were heated over a fire.
Pagans of ancient Greece made it legal for free men to rape slaves and non virgin unwed people. It was so common for people to be attacked on the roads from men leaping from the bushes that the myth of pan evolved to explain it.
Pagans of Greece and Rome frequently pillarized slaves and captured enemies from battle. They would tie these people to a pillar and torture them to death.
Pagans of Greece and Rome developed the idea of a Christos. They would anoint an individual with oils in their temple, or perhaps use urine for a pillarizing victim, and then offer them to the gods and make them a human sacrifice. They then would fill cups up with human blood and drink it calling it the pathway to the heavens. There were Hermes Christos, Zeus Christos, Mars Christos etc. Thousands died this way.
Pagans cooked alive, fed to the lions, crucified, stoned, buried alive, skinned and publicly made sport of Christians to execute them.
Pagans made hundreds of animal sacrifices at the Olympics.
Pagans castrated male slaves.
Celts waged gruesome and bloody wars with axes, spears and knives, rarely taking prisoners.
In spite of what you have written, some pathways are much better than others. In India, 65% of the population is vegetarian due to the influence of Vaishnavism, Buddhism, Jain Dharma, Sai Baba worship and the Sikh religion. Confucianism, Taoism and Mahayana Buddhism has helped to make Taiwan a vegetarian Mecca. These are the civilized religions of the world. They are better than the Abrahamic religions in terms of causing far less harm on this planet. These philosophies and religions are far more intellectual, spiritual, effective, truthful and genuine than Paganism and the Celtic religions. These civilized religions are far greater than atheism which imprisons, tortures and executes Theists daily.
Why is it that the most harmful of religions and philosophies, in terms of body count, animal torture, human rights abuses and intolerance always seek to demand respect for all religions?
Islam animal sacrifices 1 million animals a year at the Haj.
Catholicism led the inquisition and the genocide of North and South American Native peoples, Aborigines of Australia, Black Africans and Asians.
Jews have institutionalized animal sacrifice in spite of Genesis 1:29, waged genocidal wars and practice the most cruel form of animal slaughter calling it Kosher.
Pagans roll in a pool of blood as do Celts.
Tribal religions are famous for animal and human sacrifice and in many instances cannibalism.
In fact the term 'Cannibalism' comes from a pagan etymology. it is originally referential to those in "Canaan," the middle East, who worshiped "Baal." These pagans ate human flesh as did so many other Pagans. This is how the Minotaur myths of pagan Crete were made, to explain the cannibalism of the pagan priests and those that joined them.
Please stop trying to convince others that all religions are the same. When one looks at the benefit and harm ratio of all religions, it is very obvious which ones are the most ecological, vegetarian, humanistic, compassionate and good. It is also clear that satanism, atheism, paganism, Celtic traditions, tribal religions, the Abrahamic religions and Zoroastrianism are among the greatest offenders of animal and human rights.
If you truly think that ignorance fails, practice Mahayana Buddhism, Vaishnavism, Hindu Sikhism, Jain Dharma, Taoism, Confucianism or Sai Baba worship, but do not think for a moment that paganism and Celtic traditions will meet the mark.
Posted by Star the magic vegan at 02/21/17 20:48:44Actually, I have not called you a name. Name calling is very debasing. You have called me a brick wall. You have not debased me but yourself. I have offered much important information about your chosen religion and you have been insulting. Your behavior is a wonderful example of ignorance in action.
I know you consider the truth insulting. I do not buy your revival concept for the pagan/Celtic culture. I live in California where these things were revived 20 years ago. It did not work. It failed because Anglos do not want to go backwards into an unknown historic context that is reconstructed by the Masonic League and money making, crystal holding idiots holding seminars. Now only the most backward places that also have large Klu Klux Klan memberships in small towns like McKinleyville in Humbodlt County near the Oregon border still sustain a crystal meth Celtic pagan white racist culture of uneducated ruffians who have no idea what they are doing.
I assure you that the only waste of time is your false proclamations for co-mutual respect. If you think insulting people by calling them names like 'brick wall' convinces me or anyone else that you truly seek to respect others, think again. You also seem to want to promote peace, but how does calling me a name fit into this? Your Celtic pagan practice is just as I thought, totalitarian. There is no room for descent nor criticism nor true historic reflection. You exhibit the exact same intolerance as historic Celtics and pagans who would torture and kill anyone opposing them.
And just in case you think that historically the pagans did not do such things, let me describe a couple more of the torture devices invented and used by pagans in European history.
The Roman pagans invented the Judas chair which they used in the Colosseum in Lyon France extensively. It is a chair with a barbed. spiked sharp cone on the seat that Christians were forced to sit on, splitting their rectums, stabbing their colons and piercing their lower intestines causeing them to bleed to death. This was for the pagans entertainment.
Pagans also had a huge bronze bull that was hollow on the inside with a door at the underside belly of the statue. People were placed inside this large statue and then a huge bonfire was lit beneath it, slowly cooking the victim. The crowds laughed because there were small holes in the snout of the bull where the screams of the burning victim could be heard. The crowds laughed hysterically because the bronze bull sounded like it was mooing.
These pagan pastimes reflect the very same nasty judgemental emotional demeanor you displayed when you called me the name "Brick wall" and decided that I am a waste of time.
Because California borders India and Taiwan I feel fortunate to have learned civilized religions and philosophies that have for centuries and millenniums taught vegetarianism, no harm, correct thought, correct speech and true peace; the very things you claim to promote but do not practice. These religions and philosophies from the far East do practice and have practiced peace contiguously unlike the pagan Celtic method of deception.