For pens, buy Pilot instead. They do not test on animals AND all of their products are free of animal ingredients, making them completely vegan! Pilot pens are very easy to find in stores, and they even make permanent markers, but I have never seen their markers in stores so you might have to order them online. Still better than Sharpies, because Sharpies have animal ingredients (animal derived pigment)!
For tape, and bubble mailers and packing materials, I'm not completely sure, but I have found no evidence of Duck testing on animals. I am not positive if their stuff is all vegan, but at least its better than supporting 3M and Scotch, because 3M and Scotch test on animals! So unless someone has better info, I suggest Duck for mailers and tape.
And glue! Gorilla Glue and Elmer's are both vegan! No animal testing or ingredients!
Posted by StephenS at 08/07/14 10:00:34Yet - if you are living a Vegan lifestyle, as opposed to just consuming a Vegan diet, you need the info about what companies are not practicing Vegan and/or using non Vegan items in their products.
I would say it's practical to estimate one's actions as non hypocritical as being very effective, if for nothing else, in allowing one to present a valid and unified front to those constantly trying to point out the hipocricy in Vegans. And for nothing more than - everything one can do to not support the entrenched animal abuse and use industries, is a step in the right direction.
Thanks for the info - I used to use sharpies on a regular basis - NO MORE!!
Posted by happycowgirl at 08/09/14 11:06:36I can't thank u enough for posting this, veganfry32! I had no idea BIC tested on animals.
When I find out a company tests on animals, I eliminate all it's products from my life. The next shopping trip, I take a moment to scan the shelf for alternatives then permanently change my shopping habits. We vote with our consumer dollars. Every day, every dollar we spend influences which companies make a profit and stay in business and which don't.
Then there is the "karma" aspect of it. Just like I want to feel good about the food I put into my body, I want to feel good about the products I use in my life. If I buy a product that was tested on animals, I'm contributing to that. I now play a role, however small, in the suffering of that animal. I want no part of it. I want to look at my shampoo bottle, my laundry detergent, razor - even my pens, lighters and tape - and feel good about the products I purchased.
Thanks again, veganfry32!
Posted by happycowgirl at 08/09/14 11:08:35For anyone interested, here is a list of companies that test on animals: http://veganrabbit.com/list-of-companies-that-do-test-on-animals/
Posted by The Hammer at 08/11/14 02:27:06glad to see so many hard core vegans!! LOL.
even if a finished product of a company might not be tested on animals, the ingredients themselves most probably have been tested on animals, as required by law.
I am pretty sure that the ink of ALL PENS worldwide has been tested on animals, just like ALL chemical ingredients in finished products,a and i am pretty sure that laptops or cellular phones are not 100% vegan, but nobody is going to boycot these is my guess.
I really think you wont change the world for the better with boycotting pens. There are more serious topics out there.
Posted by ahimsa32fa at 08/11/14 07:05:07Yes, it's near impossible to lead a 100% vegan lifestyle.
But I believe BIC is owned by Proctor & Gamble, which is notorious for testing many of its hundreds (thousands?) of products on non-human animals.
There has been a concerted effort to boycott P & G products for decades. Whether it has forced them to change policies is debatable, but shouldn't be discounted.
Posted by StephenS at 08/11/14 08:21:51You're right Hammer - we should all just give up. Or wait, maybe we can just find a cynical rude "Guru" to tell us what's okay and what's not!
Or wait, maybe we can all do what we feel is best and try as hard as we can to do things compassionately, and to speak up to those who aren't - whether they be multi-national companies, or flaming, critical trolls on forums.
Veg/ans trying to do better aren't your enemies, and undercutting the already small and somewhat isolated veg/an community is really just counter productive, and makes you an [censored]!
Posted by The Hammer at 08/15/14 01:27:48"You're right Hammer - we should all just give up."
excuzez moi? where did i say that we have to give up? You are making that up yourself. Please read my post, it clearly says
"i usually try to be practical and try to estimate if my actions really have some effect."
That means that i concentrate on my actions that, in MY opinion, are the MOST EFFECTIVE to fight animal cruelty.
That is contrary to your emo outcry of "give up".
Ahimasa makes a good point, BIC is part of Proctor and Gamble, so instead of talking about boycotting one silly pen, you should talk about a current boycott against this company, and ask people to join that boycott.
I am all for an effective and well organised boycott, which i joined many times, and have organised many times myself in the past decades.
Asking people to boycot BIC pens is IMO a bit uninformed. Because ALL pens worldwide are filled with ink that has been tested on animals (required by law)
Better inform people and call for a P&G boycott, although. And ultimately, the best, is to join one of those campaigns that are working hard to end laws that require standard animal testing on all chemical ingredients.
Sorry, i have a brain...
Anyway, i am disappointed in you Stephen, you seem not to be the intelligent person i did think you were, somebody that comes with arguments, but just a bleeting sheep.
A mere "i don't boycott a pen" and the whole HappyCow community seems to get in a fit refusing to dig a little deeper (except for Ahimsa with his P&G remark)or come with good arguments WHY to do something. Bleeting sheeps at it's best.
Posted by StephenS at 08/15/14 15:23:08First off - to avoid this thread degenerating into a back and forth - I want to keep it somewhat on topic, by reiterating my belief that every individual action taken for the animals and against animal use and exploitation - is beneficial, does help, and does add to the progression towards a more compassionate society and a more soulful being. Whether it be a pen or a poem - whatever you can do - HELPS!!
Now - directly to you Hammer;
I’ve watched you continuously use these forums to make critical and often rude remarks towards others. And basically - I’m tired of it. Whether you are just bitter or holier than thou, I don’t know - but let’s focus on the ineptitude and hypocrisy of your false “arguments” and general disregard for any positive reinforcement and how that can be construed as counter productive and detrimental.
“Boycotting a pen and a tape really doesn't do it for me.”
“glad to see so many hard core vegans!! LOL”
“I really think you wont change the world for the better with boycotting pens. There are more serious topics out there”
“talking about boycotting one silly pen”
your emo outcry of "give up"
Sorry, i have a brain…
but just a bleeting sheep
As we can see by these Hammer quotes, there is a vein of negativity and rudeness in the way you present yourself,(and this is just one thread). Would you also say it is ineffective to not buy leather, or shop at a vegetarian market. And if not - how are these actions any different than any other product or method of voting with your dollar?.
The fact is - that everything you do - even if it doesn’t start a wide sweeping revolution - is a vote for what you believe in - and as I previously stated, if nothing else - it keeps you from being a hypocrite, as well as, allows others to find a sort of strength in unity, and an understanding that there may be others out there, trying to do positive - based on the idea of doing positive, as opposed to a motivation of reward based on how much effect their actions may have on the system as a whole.
As to my intelligence level - I find it a better statement of your emotional level that you would;
A) - find the ability to estimate my intelligence level based on limited postings on an internet website.
B) - that your estimation of my intelligence would change based on a single post which disagrees with you and calls out your behavior on said internet website.
C) - that you would even begin to imagine that your estimation of my intelligence means anything at all - especially based on all of your previous forum posts and their continuous negative thread.
It seems to me that you are really just striking out because I made a remark which questions (granted - in a flippant way) your point of view and statement. I wonder if you wouldn’t find yourself more at home and a better representation of the community on a site like “Hip Forums” (see what I did there - more flippancy). Having someone with your views and ways of expression being disappointed in me - is really one of the best examples I can have of the worth of what I am doing, saying, and supporting.
Finally - it is nice to see you at least give some type of credence to a tactic of activism with your endorsement of a P&G boycott - but I can’t help but notice that you only agree with this tactic as a way to explain away your previous negative remarks regarding individual boycotts. Basically, you are backpedaling.
To the rest of the Happy Cow folks - Don’t believe the hype. Everything you do towards a vegetarian or Vegan lifestyle, is a step in the right direction. If you are able - why not try. Whether it be a pen, a leather jacket, or a vegetarian restaurant, you may not change the world - but you will change the way you interact with the world - and that - in my estimation - is worth a thousand grandiose statements you can make. It comes down to each individual trying to do what is right, and then not being afraid to back it up - or swayed from the path by second guessing naysayers trying to convince you that you aren’t helping. A conscious, compassionate act, always helps - there is no argument against this - in my humble opinion.
So yah - if you can - do not buy Bic / 3M / or Scotch. And if you can, let them, and any company you boycott - know why. It may be a tiny step - but it is not insignificant - and grand stairways are made of many steps.
Posted by The Hammer at 08/17/14 06:10:59"First off - to avoid this thread degenerating into a back and forth - I want to keep it somewhat on topic, by reiterating my belief that every individual action taken for the animals and against animal use and exploitation - is beneficial, does help, and does add to the progression towards a more compassionate society and a more soulful being."
I couldn't agree more.
Only, my point is that EVERY PEN is animal tested, so NOT buying a BIC pen but another animal tested pen doesn't make sense. My point is boycoting BIC pens is not small, it simply is nothing, it is a fuzzy feel good feeling but not substantial.
As for my "rudeness" Excuze moi, i didn't see a sign at the door that says only smiling people are welcome. You cannot force me into a Micky Mouse attitude.
As for "rudeness", i simply say my opinion backed by arguments, i leave it to the other person to defend his opinion or arguments with counter arguments, that makes an interesting conversation.
As for "rudeness", i never am personal, it is you who is extremely personal with name calling like "censored".
As for "rudeness", i always was like this, and since you recommended Eric to make me moderator, you must have liked and agreed with my style! Your problem is not me being rude, your problem is that i disagree with you and don't act like you want me to act.
Too many people want to be patted on the back, when confronted with a different opinion and arguments they don't like, when you don't agree with them they start to be personal and name calling like "you are a righteous vegan police" or in your case "censored".
The normal tactic from people who don't have solid arguments, just try to bully the opponent with emotional and personal attacks.
And that is exactly how i view you, a bully who wants to force his way to other people who don't walk in line with you.
Always stick to arguments and logic, don't get personal or you simply don't belong on a forum and certainly not as a moderator.
Try to learn to deal with people who you don't like, with another opinion, other arguments, another style, people who don't smile at you and who don't medidate or are into yoga.
How about this, if you disagree but don't have arguments, or thisnk i am an [censored], why not simply.....IGNORE me. Don't have a meltdown. Don't try to start mass hysteria.
I repeat it. I am confused. So we shouldn’t buy BIC pens but other pens? ALL PENS in the whole goddam world have been tested on animals!! A person boycotting BIC pens “because it is animal tested” and instead buying another pen WHICH IS ALSO ANIMAL TESTED, is, in my opinion a fool. If you reason like that to an omnivore you will be rightfully viewed as a naïve fool. It doesn’t make sense. Only if you don’t buy pens at all but instead pencils (made from wood, no ink so not animal tested) that would be consequent and make sense, to me or anyone else.
With cosmetics it is different because:
1. Cosmetic companies can use ingredients that are not animal tested, they are not forced by law to test on animals.
2. In the shop there is a choice, you can choose between animal tested and not animal tested cosmetic products, which are clearly labeled.
So no, I am not advocating to “do nothing”, as you falsely suggest, I am merely , I will repeat it again, advocating to use your brain and think things over before doing something, and so to be more effective in fighting animal cruelty.
A BIC boycott is just a Feel Good thing to do, IMHO, it makes you feel like King Vegan and makes you sleep good at night, but it is not substantial, you are not making a dent in the Animal Cruelty Machine, not even a small one, please don’t pat yourself on the back, eh, it only falsely gives you the idea of “doing something”, and keeps people actually away from doing substantial things. Instead of praising a BIC boycott, better suggest to the OP that the real problem are laws that require animal testing of all chemicals including ink, and maybe a link from a campaign that lobbies to change these laws.
That makes logic to me.
Boycotting one pen that is tested on animals and instead buying another pen that is equally tested on animals isn't logic to me. That is like deciding not to eat bacon anymore because animals are killed for it, and switching to steak.
Anyway, stick to arguments and don't get personal anymore or you simply don't belong at a forum.
Posted by moonlight_magic at 08/27/14 11:58:02It's amazing how many products involve animal testing. I am learning something new everyday . I wish there was a list that we could refer to when looking for animal friendly products.
Posted by dkdkfkoooeeo at 08/29/14 19:20:46Curious thing about mandatory testing on animals.
GM food crops were subject to mandatory testing on rats for...a period of three months. !
After which GM crops were deemed to be safe,..but...when independent researchers repeated the tests for the full lifespan of the rats, there were many adverse consequences, and also increased levels of infertility which were passed down through future generations.
So mandatory is always mandatory, but is it always reliable ?, and if it isn't...
Posted by dkdkfkoooeeo at 08/29/14 19:27:10Falacious logic ?,...murdering one African isn't worth complaining about or addressing, but...murdering 1000 Chinese is.?!
Posted by FangedHare at 09/14/14 18:36:15I'm new (this is my very first forum post actually), but I just wanted to say a big thanks to veganfry32 for the initial post. That's exactly the kind of info that is great to have and disseminate.
Also, I want to comment on something. My very first impression of the thread itself became a bit negative quickly, due to "The Hammer" and his snide comments. Then I noticed that it wasn't just me that was put off by those remarks.
So, two things:
Hammer, your long-winded posts aside, I would agree that choosing one animal-tested pen brand randomly over another doesn't make a lot of sense. But, this boils down to one thing: you say that all pens are animal-tested. So, this directly contradicts veganfry32's post (Pilot pens being non-tested). Are you sure about this? And how?
And the second thing is for the moderator: I now notice that "StephenS" no longer seems to be here...his profile no longer exists? Why is that? It seems awfully coincidental that he would go so shortly after the above. If he left, that is unfortunate. If he was banned, that is beyond unfortunate and I'm sorry to say would be a huge red flag with this site for me.
Posted by FangedHare at 09/16/14 03:29:09Very well, understood. Thank you for the quick response.
Posted by EllaRiel at 10/02/17 17:01:42Well, this was ages ago now, and I realize that the flame-throwing was finally noted and ended... but I'm still here, wondering where we got the info on Sharpie pigments, whether it's true that "all" pens are animal-tested, and whether BIC itself rests on animals and/or has animal-derived ingredients, or whether that poor distinction applies only to perennial mega-baddie P&G. Does anyone have these answers?
BTW, please forgive me if I sound grumpy or intolerant ATM. I'm an artist, and I work hard at keeping my supply cabinet vegan, and spreading the informed word to others. As such, I've navigated here in the midst of doing more vegan product research and after a full morning of wading through "dumb stuff" on mainstream sites (e.g., how vegans ought to avoid petrochemicals because they contain dead dino bits, and how apples come tainted from the tree because great-great-g-g-g-etc-grandma was buried a mile down the aquifer and the tree is drinking of that cannibalistic juice). A certain amount of that is par for the course and some of it is even funny, but it really bums me out to find it on one of "our" sites. Guess I'm just wishing we veg-and-vegan folk could treat each other with a little of the same compassion we show our animal friends. :::climbing down off of soapbox:::
Anyway, thanks in advance for any follow-on info, and have a blessed day..
Posted by Mountainmystic at 10/03/17 18:30:08EllaRiel--I looked on PETA website that allows search by company and limited product name search. BIC Corporation and Scotch 3M both do animal testing. Not sure about Sharpie. Don't come up in PETA search. We all impact the world in one way or another. I think you are very aware, so you are trying to do the right thing.
You are an artist and that is great. If you use the markers or paints, the best way to honor animals and humans is by creating positive imagery in your art. That is a great gift you have to share with all creatures of the world. The world is your canvas to explore. Thank the animals and honor the markers and paint you have in your hand.
Posted by AdamKeefer at 11/02/17 17:23:27Hello! Thank you so so much for the information! It is very helpful indeed! I do have a question. Although I do not intend on buying these things as i am vegan, occasionally my spouse comes home from work with these product, being that I personally did not buy these do you think that it's OK to still use them since the damage has already been done by the company she works for or do you think it's still wrong??? Please let me know :-)
Posted by happah10 at 11/03/17 00:55:40What do you think, Adam?
You are your own person.
I consume vast quantities of 3m products in my workplace because i don't have a choice. I seriously doubt any of the products we use are tested on animals but never the less, bear the same name as the multinational conglomerate that may do testing on animals for certain consumer products.
And in comparison to buying a vegan food product ... say Enjoy Life products... Which is owned by the multinational conglomerate Mondelez, which makes many products that contain animal ingredients and assuredly ends more animal lives than 3m does, I don't see much difference in my case.
To support one is okay but not the other. I'm having trouble making the connection