Vegan strip clubs -should HC promote them?

Question

Portland's vegan strip club is in serious need of promotion - it is located at the old "Pirates tavern" location. . The old Pirates Tavern - famous mostly for it's bad, bad food - not "loved" by HappyCow reviewers - http://wweek.com/editorial/3251/8129/ . Owner Johnny Diablo (not related to me) has a very unusual "take" on vegan business! . +Pirates Tavern went out of business in December 2007, Diablo says, because most vegans live at the poverty level or below.+ . Hmmm - I take a look at my veg*n friends & I cannot agree with Johnny D. - I think that Pirates Tavern went out of business because it was a complete dump of a place & served bad food. . . . . The new strip club - opened last month - same location - "vegan cheeky" - http://wweek.com/editorial/3413/10351/ . +The club's main claim to veganism seems to be that strippers cannot wear any leather, fur, silk or wool. If a dancer slips up and sports snakeskin heels, Diablo says he pulls the woman aside to talk about "not bringing murder victims into the establishment."+ . The new strip club is now - "For Sale" - http://wweek.com/wwire/?p=11310 . +Thanks to a tip from a blogging stripper, WWire has learned that Portland's Casa Diablo, the world's first vegan strip club, is for sale after just a month and a half in business. + . Price: $995,000 - http://www.cimls.com/sale-listing/44372 . http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/off/612878875.html . The Craig's List post - Reply to: hous-612878875@craigslist.org Date: 2008-03-20, 1:56PM PDT . Own your own gentlemen's club. Beautiful interior. Good times. Email for more information. Serious buyers only. .

JohnnySensible · Answer

A "classic" - "Nude Vegan Cyclist" - to be found at - http://www.bikereader.com/solo/vegan.html . Not 100% sure but I believe that it is written by Sam Walker - http://www.samwalker.net/ . . NUDE VEGAN CYCLIST . Thanks for coming everybody. Just to make sure you're in the right classroom, all of you are cyclists, correct? Good. OK now, raise your hand if you cycle primarily out of concern for the environment. Ah, I see a lot of hands in the air. Splendid. You fit the profile. The rest can leave. . Keep your hands up if you're a vegetarian. You have a question in the back? No, a vegetarian doesn't eat chicken. Nor fish. You can go now, too. There's a fascinating talk on neo-Darwinism going on down the hall, if you're interested. Sorry to have wasted your time. . I see the classroom is getting less crowded, but there are still hands in the air. . Yes, the gentleman in the sandals? No, the hemp sandals. Can you explain to the rest of the class what a vegan is? That's right. No cheese or milk or eggs or butter, etc. What's that? Well, honey's debatable. Please don't look at me that way, sir. Not all vegans would agree with you. I'm aware there's more to it than that for the credentialed vegan. Certainly no leather or fur. Wool and silk are naturally out. I see you've got a list you want me to read to the class... . Anybody here wearing pearls? Fake pearls don't count, miss. I suppose I can see where oysters have rights. Look, I know that white sugar isn't exactly good for you, but...? Oh, I see. Sometimes bone char is used in processing. Fine. Class, you'd better hold onto your seats. I think the ride's going to be getting bumpy. . Harvested food kills insects. Very Buddhist, that one. It says here that even cotton can be verboten. Better toss your cameras out, unless they're digital, because film uses gelatin. And... oh my God. No. Is this true? Animal fat is used in the vulcanisation of tyre rubber? This is terrible. What are we supposed to use for bike tyres, hemp? What's that? You want to give me a catalogue of... what? Page 96. Yes, I see. 'Hemp tyres'. Very ingenious. . Look, I'm really very sorry about this, but these guidelines seem quite clear. Everybody who uses any of these things had better leave. . Pity. I wasn't finished with my lecture. Just you and me now, eh? What's that? Do I mind if you take off your sandals? Feel free. However, I'd really prefer if you left your shirt on. It's an insurance thing. Right. Well, if you insist, but the school can take no responsibility for... Sir, please don't remove your trousers. I really must be firm on this point. I don't care if it's necessary to "Harmonise your learning potential". Look, I think that's the end of our time. Thank you and good day. Good Lord, don't those itch? . I don't know when I first encountered the cheerfully snide catch-all 'nude vegan cyclist', but it was probably in The Guardian. As a convenient label to slap on myself it's two-thirds true (three-thirds only when I'm in the shower with my bike) and it always pops into my head whenever my thoughts drift around to why I've set up camp in such rarefied territory. . What I'd give at times to be able to walk into a restaurant and order practically anything on the menu. And who amongst us wouldn't love to cycle on streets where 'critical mass' is nothing more than an overloaded basket? . I didn't ask to be a minority. It just happened, little by little. One good idea after another impacted my brain ("Yeah, and left craters!" - quiet in the back), and now I'm condemned to live the rest of my life justifying myself, which can get complicated. . Take the vegan thing. Some folks find my diet an implied criticism and are quick to look for signs of hypocricy - leather shoes are a favourite target - and 'purer' vegans would spare me hell but not purgatory for myriad sins. . The movement, which my dictionary calls a 'sect' (and it's no wonder; the opening scenario is less of a joke than you might think) invariably has its evangelical component. That V-shaped halo is hard to miss. But I'll confine myself to passing along a website address [veganoutreach.org] which makes the case quite nicely and move along to cyclists. . Why are we members of this particular club? Maybe cycling is too much of an implied criticism of internal combustion. . In any case, we have our own bouncers. . Awhile back I had an engine put onto my wife's bicycle. It pollutes. It's a little loud. It's an imperfect compromise. After installing it I went to a bike store for advice about dampening the vibration it caused. When I explained the contraption the clerk wasn't amused. "Take it off," he suggested, visibly horrified that the noble expression of goodness that is a bicycle was being sullied by such a monstrous cancer. . I'm not a big fan of the thing either; nor is my wife. But it allows her to accompany me on some long, hilly trips which she would normally opt out of, or we'd end up driving. 'S better, no? . Besides, I like to think that all the cycling I do makes up for that little bit of petrol that our Frankenstein bike lets loose into the atmosphere. That's my conceit. I'm perfectly willing to take some brickbats, but I'll not be tossed out of the cycling fraternity because of it. . 'Nude vegan cyclist' is splendidly annoying shorthand for everyone on the green end of the spectrum. Trust me: it's a rough bunch. . Cycling Today, August 1999 . We're all complicit in the carnage to some degree (the horror, the horror), but the curious thing about "Are you wearing leather shoes?" is that it rather taunts folks like me for being extremist while at the same time criticising us if we're not extremist enough.

Chia · Answer

In regards to whether a strip club should be listed on HappyCow because it's "vegan," my opinion is NO.

Last I checked, this website is HappyCow's guide to "restaurants and health food stores" and NOT HappyCow's guide to "strip clubs, etc."  That's content for ANOTHER website!

Let's keep HappyCow family friendly, okay? 

Peace.

Rafael · Answer

I request the Webmaster & the editorial team not to make HappyCow more "bland" - many meat & dairy sites have big budgets - HappyCow must be cutting edge / controversial / exciting in order to get traffic & activity.

Follow the lead of our friends at PETA.

To me PETA is supremely "family friendly".

The focus is helping animals - not simply on being overly polite.

gr8vegan · Answer

You know this Diablo isn't going to last....   lets not make a major issue over it.  I hope to heck I get a chance to go there before it closes because checking off a visit to a vegan strip club is paramount to my life's vegan adventures!  They serve vegan food.  What more do you need to be on here?  We should be thrilled it existed during our lives!  How about a vegan airline?  vegan bowling alley?  I'm up for anything!  ADVENTURE!

JohnnySensible · Answer

"Leisure for reverie, gay or somber, does much to enrich life." - Miriam Beard - 1901 - 1983 ............................................. India already has a lacto-veggie airline - MDLR Airlines - but the last time that I checked they still had very few planes! ! ! ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDLR_Airlines "We at MDLR love Nature and All God Made Creatures." ............................................. Over to Portland - I agree with gr8vegan - there is no need to make a major issue of this. I say "yes" to listing it as long as it lasts! Johnny Diablo is an interesting character. He is getting a lot of great press coverage for animal rights. He has my support & thanks for that. Casa Diablo 37th & NW Nicolai - SHR Portland, OR US In The North West Industrial Area Just West of Montgomery Park Directions: From Downtown go North on 405 then take Highway 30 exit. Make left at first light on to NW Nicolai Street. Go West 1.5 miles. Casa Diablo will be on your left up on a hill just past 35th Ave. 503 222 6600 - for reservations 503 222 6603 - Johnny for auditions www.casadiablo.com Open Mon-Sat 11am-2am 100% Vegan Lunch served 11 a.m. - 3 p.m. - Snacks available at other times. Authentic Mexican Cuisine Served Until 2:00am +Hey! If you haven't heard, we serve our authentic Mexican cuisine until 2:00am everyday Monday through Saturday. Try our tacos, burritos, tostadas, enchiladas, chimichangas, taquitos and more. And of course, our Diablo burger & fries are always popular. Most dishes are $5 or less!+ www.vegguide.org has it listed already. Here is it on supervegan - http://supervegan.com/blog/entry.php?id=999 The HappyCow is lagging behind!

webmaster · Answer

Portland has plenty of eating options and this is not one most HappyCow visitors would like to eat at. It's not a "restaurant" and it's not family-friendly. We've been following this place and we do know Diablo personally.  As you've mentioned, this place is already for sale and it seems that there hasn't been a genuine interest in offering quality vegan food from what we can tell.

cosmicbdog · Answer

I think its terrific.

I disagree with the boggle eyed male losing his stuff over a female showing a bit of skin as any feminine supporter out there, but I can't help but think there is too much wimpy attitude connected to the Vegan / vegetarian movement.

I chime in with rafael who seems to have dissapeared though, in saying that family friendly to me isn't what its all about. Sure, eating at nice places with great food is interesting, but I think if this is to be a place that is truly about making the cows happy then there is a whole movement and change ... a revolution that is being ignored here. People standing up and being controversial is a part of that and if people like Diablo aren't supported then the vegetarians will be seen as a bunch of recipe sharing people who plain and simple opt out of the challenges facing the world.

Murder is happening every day. Babies are being taken away from their mummas while their mums love juice gets raped from them so that we can eat yoghurt and share recipes. I don't know about you guys but it doesn't sit right with me at all and I'm not about to pretend the world is ok and bring my children up to think its all fluffy duffy when there is some serious carnage going on.

This guy diablo went out there and started a controversial thing that could have done more positive then bad. Even though I don't support strip clubs personally, there was big media potential to turn heads... sure, its not the end ideal we'd hope for... but I'd rather vegan strip clubs than meat strip clubs. Girls wearing life instead of death. Maybe per year a million men go into that club and see how the girls are actually different to the 100,000 other strip clubs they've been to and they begin to wonder "could being a vegetarian actually be better?".

Peace... but remember, peace without confronting the reality of the challenges at hand is just a bubble that probably doesn't really create much peace at all.

KellyVeganGirl · Answer

I didn't even know vegan strib clubs existed! lol

HM · Answer

Ok... So I'm from portland... so here's my take.
The owner of Diablo, is a big fat slime of a human being.
He has come on to female employees left and right, has no respect whatsoever, isn't exactly clean and as I've conversed with him on a number of occasions, while remaining as vague as possible, let's just say I'd not invite him over for a cup o tea, or even to help me move when nobody was left.
I know that Diablo is now closed.  THANK GOD.  well, not thank god, but you get the jist.
I went there when it was pirates tavern.  Food from a can style.
I went there when it was Diablo.
The strippers that night were not vegan, and I don't know any self respecting stripper (yes they exist) who would ever dance there.
The dancers were obnoxious and couldn't do a real pole trick to save their life.
I live in Portland.  You can't walk 3 blocks without tripping over a strip joint.  Why go out of the way to go OUT OF THE WAY to Diablo to see medicine ball boobs and ridiculous make up and eat crappy food when you can go to a number of strip joints and actually see a vegan dancer if you know who they are and they don't mind telling you where they work.  That is if you really need to go.
It's a controversial subject.  Some would say it's exploitation, but I've never known a stripper forced to do so against her will.  I know some very good talent out there that is entertaining and it was never found at Diablo.

Tatiana · Answer

HM- that post was just awesome, thanks for your candid point of view!

JohnnySensible · Answer

Agreed HM! My related posts were "tongue in cheek". The big upside of the failed project is that it generated some great publicity for "the cause" - especially the superb Kara Jesella "New York Times" article - http://www.happycow.net/forum/vegetarian/view_topic.php?id=146

HM · Answer

:)
Johnny, you rock, no worries...
Thank you tatiana:)
meow

wait a minute, I'm surprised Ducati hasn't jumped me on that one yet... we'll see.
hehe

gr8vegan · Answer

I'm going in 2 weeks!  So I'll let everyone know how it goes down from a degenerate male's point of view!  (j/k)  but seriously I will be so pissed if the stripper's aren't vegan!!!!!

HM · Answer

it's CLOSED DOWN... they shut their doors a few weeks ago because he couldn't make a dollar to keep it open.  And no, the strippers that I ever saw there weren't (yes I went more than once... to try to see if it got any better, and it never did)

gr8vegan · Answer

I just got off the phone with them and they are OPEN.  503-222-6600  You can also see their schedule on myspace.com/casadiablo  Not sure where HM got her info, who knows maybe it closed for a few days or something, but its DEFINITELY OPEN

HM · Answer

That is interesting.  I'll have to look up the article.
I know there was a huge article in several local papers and on Indymedia that the place was closing down and everyone was across the bored pleased.  I figured they'd be closed by now as they were selling the place.
Maybe it was re bought by someone else... I'll look into it myself
meow
If you want to go, go, but don't expect anything great.  Nobody I know supports that slime.
(insisting that a female staff perform certain acts on him in the back room give me reason enough to boycott anything he would own)

HM · Answer

The owner is still Johny, and he is trying to sell the place, indeed.  So I guess they haven't had any buyers yet... which is understandable due to the location and reputations.
The claim is that some of the strippers are vegan.  The same claim from before my friends and I went and saw nothing even close.
so there you have it.

HM · Answer

http://wweek.com/wwire/?p=11310#comments_add one of many sources... up for sale... I figured it would have sold by now, but then again, I'm not surprised it hasn't... there are many comments to read.

JohnnySensible · Answer

The "Comments" on that page are funny!

Passionate people!

The world needs more mavericks!

HappyCow needs more real Reviews / Reviewers.

gr8vegan · Answer

Those comments are great!  Got to find this one out for myself!  Hey at least he is super proud of having HappyCow reviews, even if he possibly wrote them himself! I'd guess that he owns the actual land/building and is trying to figure out the best way to unload it.  I had read that he was trying to sell it for a million bucks shortly after it opened.  For all the controversy around him I agree with Johnny "The world needs mavericks!"  PETA definitely exploits the skin :) Not that there is any relation to running a strip club.

JohnnySensible · Answer

Portland is just "catching up". There are many vegetarian English nudists (naturists). In the 1920's they would meet & eat at "The Minerva Cafe / Restaurant" at 144 High Holborn in London, the headquarters of the Women's Freedom League. The "......restaurant supplied vegetarian dishes, guaranteed free of animal fat, prepared and cooked separately." Nudists of the English Gymnosophical Society held their London meetings there. . . Philip Peter Ross Nichols - http://www.controverscial.com/Ross%20Nichols.htm + Nichols was a devout Christian and regularly attended his local Anglican churches, and for a number of years was actively involved with the Scout Movement before turning his attention to socialist and pacifist causes. He was also a vegetarian and naturist, and in the early 1930's joined one of Britain's first nudist colonies: the Spielplatz located in Bricket Wood near St. Albans, Hertfordshire. It was here that Nichols first became acquainted with fellow naturist Gerald Gardner, owner of another nudist colony nearby, The Five Acres Country Club. + . . Gerald Gardner reintroduced Wicca / witchcraft in England - English wiccans are mostly vegan & like to dance nude / "skyclad". . . The occultist Dion Fortune was also a nudist - she wrote "The Soya Bean" in 1925 & made soy milk / soy cheeses.

HM · Answer

O I know quite a few vegan strippers.  Rad and kick ass ones who actually have a talent to what they are doing as well.
Portland is also home to a lot of feminists, who, stripper or not, have a sense of dignity and self respect that strengthens their ability to make a choice as to where they would work, and who they would work for.
:)

gr8vegan · Answer

SUCCESS!  I have in fact confirmed that Casa Diablo is open and rocking.  I had the red carpet rolled out for me.  First off, let me say EVERYONE ONE!!!!! From the Door man, Bartender, DJ, Owner, Dancers were SO FREAKING NICE!!!!!  I really felt like a guest of honor.  It was my Birthday so that made it fantastic.  Subtle was Casa's superb Vegan dancer.  Make CERTAIN you go when she is performing.  There were other veg dancers, too!!!  I really don't know how to do this place justice.  I understand how vegans can revolt against sex+veganism, but look at every Peta ad or any demonstration where naked girls are painted like cows, etc. I think the place is fantastic.  I only wish I lived in Portland.  Its truly worth the trip alone to go to Casa, but here's the kicker...  The Vegan Burger is hands down the best in the world.  I have the photos to prove it! (warning don't go taking pictures in a strip club w/o the owner's approval!!! lol)  If any of you miss the BK Whopper, I'd have to say this blows it away.  We also had the nachos (yes I went there with my gf, she had a blast, too) and the perogies. The food and beer is so inexpensive.  Its like $3-$5 for each item.  Casa is only a mile or two out of town so its not a bad drive, plenty of parking.  Just tell them you are vegan and the Red Carpet is out!  Honestly, this was an awesome cap to my bday trip to Portland and the greatest vegan adventure to date.  Again don't forget to try the burger!!!  I'll personally refund you if it doesn't live up to my review via paypal!

HM · Answer

hahaha.... you are the first and only person I've heard a positive review about that place.
of course, since it was your birthday and you are vegan etc... 
very interesting.
and as far as PETA goes... I'm not a peta supporter so that doesn't fly:)
meow
I'd still prefer mary's club or Devil's point where there are also vegan strippers with actual talent and though the atmosphere isn't vegan it's not owned by someone as much as a slime.  I'm curious as to what vegan strippers actually work there.  Nobody I know does.

brainyblonde · Answer

funny how gr8vegan's first post said the place won't last and then he went and he loved it! that's what i want to hear! Thanks so much for the review... ya why not be cutting edge? here's a highlarious video about the place. i just added them to my friends on myspace and the owner wrote me a very complimentary letter in response ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAtbIUyAmbE

gr8vegan · Answer

HM, we went to Mary's, too.  It was walking distance from our hotel, it was fun, really good performers, but SMOKEY!  Casa is all smoke free.

HM · Answer

yeah well the entire city will be smoke free indoors as of the first of January.  Mary's may not be owned by a vegan but by a woman who has more than a half ounce of honorable dignity.  And the dancers there have dignity as well.
Nice that Johny put on a friendly act for ya... he's done that for me too... though a little too friendly.  You were there with your partner. Likely it was known you were from out of town, birthday, first time, or all three.
If you come back, ask around in the vegan community.

vaunderbroad · Answer

maybe I'm old fashioned but I think the objectification of women and the objectification of animals can be put in file folders side by side.

In our culture the hunger for meat is subconsciously associated with the drive for sex I see a lot of overcompensating in this department. 

There is a world of difference between a vegan naturalist and a male vegan strip club owner. 

Really how can you see yourself as humane when you are visually dissecting the female form at a dollar a pop?

How can you see strippers as feminists????

HM · Answer

Vunderbroad a very very good point.
I personally do not judge those that strip.  However I do know that sometimes it is what they have found to make a living without hang ups elsewhere.
Though if most aspects I fully agree with you.
I guess Portland is so laxed... I will say I do know some strippers (I did say many but I mean a few) that are feminist and I don't personally know how they do it because I my self couldn't.  Like I said it's not for me to judge.
However the male vegan strip club owner is very well known in the community as nothing positive that has brought nothing positive.  Which is why you won't see the vegan community as a whole supporting his business.  He even says "the only meat here is on the pole"... sick human being.

gr8vegan · Answer

It all depends on the club.  We are really too hung up on nudity in this country. Finding a good club where the dancers really perform is a lot of fun.  When the audience is clapping you know you're at the right place.  And you can't pull the female angle here because there are plenty of male ones, too, and more often than not its women who are sitting at the stage at female clubs.  Go check out a Burlesque show, maybe that's more your speed.

HM · Answer

That is kind of funny...  gr8vegan.
wow.
Not that I want to encourage you to go out and hit up a bunch of strip joints... but sheesh.  I know you aren't from Portland and likely haven't been to a variety.  But to think that you feel the dancers at diablo were talented?
that's funny.  You really do need to get out more.
Again, been there, seen it... and as I said, spend some more time in Portland and get to know the actual vegan community.  You know.  It is sad that you made that place the highlight of your trip here.  There are SO MANY other vegan places and even a place like Mary's, though a smoking place (until the first of january), that is not vegan owned, (johny's is not... NOT vegan operated... and I wouldn't trust anything anyone there claims), the owner and staff there are REAL and GENUINE and without the slime behind the scenes.

HM · Answer

oh but then again it seems that maybe that sort of thing is up you ally... I mean you brought up PETA and their practices as if that was in defense to Diablo, and, well, Peta is not a good defense for anything, and if that is where you get your ideals of vegan and what is ok (the use of bare skin in peta's campaigns is extremely anti feministic and only trades sexism for speciesism.) well it is understood why you are so defensive about strip clubs and diablo's vegan strip club.  It kind of is a Peta type idea.

JohnnySensible · Answer

HM - I was born totally naked - I have no problem whatsoever with bare skin & I am very happy that PETA uses images of bare skin to reduce animal torture / murder. In India PETA are taking on the milk / dairy industry - they have my full support. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I am much less concerned with nudity than I am with the fact that HappyCow is sliding to the "slimy right" - Quote from the Eric the Webmaster - above - + Portland has plenty of eating options and this is not one most HappyCow visitors would like to eat at. It's not a "restaurant" and it's not family-friendly. + I see this as Eric limiting "free speech" - we have a worrying contradiction here - in another thread today he is declaring his support of our freedoms - http://www.happycow.net/forum/happycow/view_topic.php?id=51! Also his use of language is disturbing "most HappyCow visitors" - are we being controlled / directed to think & behave in certain ways - are we being "herded"? Then the phrase "family friendly" - whatever does "family friendly" mean - does Eric think that we are all "Little House on the Prairie" types? ".... the show's timeless themes of love, strong morals and rich family values still resonate and inspire us today." Is their a hidden John McCain / right wing agenda on HappyCow? I invite fellow cheeky veg*n strippers / nudists to speak out before our rights are squashed / covered up.

webmaster · Answer

johnnysensible- get a life dude.

btw- the issue of whether or not to list this place on HappyCow is a matter of our own free speech as publishers, unlike the issue of freely discussing it here in this thread.

HM · Answer

Johnnysensible...
I was born naked too.
It's not so much nudity that bothers me.  Hell, I see it all the time when I pass a mirror in my house after a shower or at night or while cleaning (kidding... kinda).
Plus we have this thing here called freedom of expression and I've seen some truly amazing, I mean AMAZING performance ART that involves bare skin.
But to exploit something that has been a core of much of the suppression and horrible tags that men have put on women throughout centuries in order to get people's attention to the exploitation of another creature is sick in my thoughts, as well as countless others, which is one of the many reasons why people look at activists with a bad taste in their mouth when they are unable to differentiate between PETA and any other activist group that does not use the same tactics.  
(for example, not one single peta member was at our latest demos against ringling brother's circus... however I heard and read a lot of bashing of peta, assuming we were them, bringing up much of the above and other issues they have with peta, as if we carry those same behaviors.  and we don't.)
However I agree that Peta has many people working for them that are awesome, diligent, and very devoted people who have great values.  It's usually only a matter of time before they drop off though due to burn out and growing awareness of what goes on within.  Seen it happen and hear all about it.

Sounds like this has gone way off topic though, partly thanks to me.
 apologies for that.

JohnnySensible · Answer

Well I started this thread HM & I thank you for taking the time to post to it once again. With 95%+ of the population addicted to cruel eating I appreciate any publicity which mentions "veg*n" - whether it connects it with warm, cuddly, family, family friendly topics - or to strip joints & serial killers etc. This morning I was close to having "HappyCow burn out" after noticing that "Eric the knife" had once again deleted more of my posts whilst keeping up posts from anonymous abusers. I am not at all "on topic phobic" - I believe in & practice "paranoia-free" / "anonymity-free" free speech. I do oppose the anonymous abuse of veg*ns on HappyCow.net . . . . Peta's opponents are very well funded - especially David Martosko / Ric Berman / CCF - do you know this site which they fund & run? - http://www.petakillsanimals.com I read this page yesterday - http://www.petakillsanimals.com/news_detail.cfm?ID=3701 Still the Peta kids manage to outsmart CCF & Co. on a daily basis - getting volumes of free publicity - here is an example from a few days ago - http://www.macleans.ca/canada/features/article.jsp?content=20080905_191725_24940 This is a relevant excerpt - quoting CCF's Martosko - +Kelly McParland, the National Post's politics editor, recently described PETA as one of "certain organizations that news editors strive to ignore, determined not to be lured into offering the free publicity their members so cravenly seek." It was a rather odd contention, given the media foofaraw that ensued after PETA's attempted ad-buy in Manitoba. And David Martosko, research director at the CCF—a Washington-based non-profit funded largely by food and restaurant groups that has assumed the role of PETA's arch-nemesis—is less inclined than Wong to credit PETA's marketing department for its successes. "It's the journalists, stupid," he quips. "I think most ordinary people do tune PETA out and wish the media would too."+ See how David Martosko is crying in despair at their success - thank you journalists! . . . . My personal exposure to striptease has been very limited - in the very early 80's I briefly managed the veggie restaurant "Healthy, Wealthy & Wise" in Soho, London, UK - which morphed into "Govinda's" - http://www.happycow.net/reviews.php?id=673 This is positioned just at the top of London's main strip club area. A Brazilian Hare Krishna friend worked as a stripper - she had me assist her to carry her trunk of costumes into different clubs on several occasions - I remember being impressed & surprised by the fact that she was fully "in control". There was a market for striptease & she was maintaining herself & her family by working in it. Her "take" was that she was exploiting the men who paid to enter. In Bangkok, Thailand in the 90's I met human trafficking / rape victims who had worked as slaves in strip clubs. I do not know anything about Casa Diablo. I do hope that their workers have the freedom to choose whether or not to work there.

JohnnySensible · Answer

For anyone interested this Forum thread has a lot of info. re. the very well funded slur campaign against Peta by CCF & others - including some heavily anti-Peta "ve-gones" - http://www.happycow.net/forum/vegetarian/view_topic.php?id=110

JohnnySensible · Answer

Ha - so if Casa Diablo sold a few health / whole foods they could quickly be listed once again on HC! "Nude Food" has their own listing - happycow.net/reviews.php?id=5387 http://nudefood.biz/ + We are a natural health food store located in a historic farmers market in Harrisburg, PA. (just 2 hours from Philadelphia). + Nice.

HM · Answer

To be honest johnny, it really bothers me... this whole subject.
regardless of what the owner puts on the menu, he is the slimiest dirt back of a strip club owner there is.  And as said before there are quite a few strip clubs in portland.
gr8 got great service.  whatever.
if I was disrespectful enough to my friend to bring her in here I'd have her come in here and tell you herself what a horrible human being he is.  SHE WORKED FOR HIM before it was even a strip joint.  can you say sexual harassment ?  and no, she isn't one to cry wolf.  She's a very good person, one often who would overlook such stuff and brush it off if it weren't so bad.
I could go on if I just wanted to do nothing but find myself in a horrible mood talking about someone not worth a cent of my time.
I have met him more than once.  He's a slime.  He's obnoxious and dirty.  But then, nobody really wants to listen to a local who actually knows something about the guy.  Let's just look at a one time visitor's experience as a special guest (it was after all his birthday, and he was, after all, from out of town).
whatever.
How about look back at what else has been said by people who live here, who have had their own experience with him as not only an employee, but as customers.  Funny that gr8 said it was the best burger... I've been only told the opposite.
I've had vegan burgers elsewhere that were good.  For a burger.  But then I don't make habit of eating burgers, as I rarely feel like eating fake meat.

webmaster · Answer

johnnysensible, you stated "...could quickly be listed once again"- Casa Diablo has never been listed on this site. 
This thread alone is almost too much publicity. 
We are not interesting in supporting any strip club, though it's interesting to hear how HappyCow visitors feel about it. Aside from our personal views on listing a strip club, there are additional reasons why we would be unable to list this one, which may not be discussed here due to a confidentiality agreement.

JohnnySensible · Answer

HM & Webmaster, As stated on 8/14 above - my approach to the "promoting strip clubs" aspect of this thread is almost totally "tongue in cheek". http://www.littlehouseontheprairie.com/web/little.htm - I will never, ever, ever agree with Ingalls / Wayside, Kansas style "family friendly" as part of an editorial policy here - but it ain't my site so I may be better to keep quiet about that point in the future. "almost too much publicity" - I cannot see any real "danger" - I do not 1% believe that this thread is going to generate flood's of non-Republican "cheeky veg*ns" visiting Casa Diablo, or is 1% going to inspire others to turn their own stores / restaurants into "naturist" venues. Just to be more sure about this I checked with a couple of restaurant owning friends this morning who have discussed this topic with me - I can confirm that after showering they both dressed as usual before opening their businesses & neither of them have booked flights to Portland. What I do really like is the amount of animal friendly press coverage that projects such as this crazy one in Portland generate - some of the press articles about Casa Diablo have been really first class - I have referenced some of them above & in related threads. HappyCow did list the same venue when it was packaged as "Pirates Tavern" - from what I read about it then both the food & the service were not of the highest quality BUT as a veg*n eating place it did then "qualify" to be listed here. When I joined HappyCow it looked like this - http://web.archive.org/web/20070515030624/http://www.happycow.net/ The site has grown a lot in the past year plus. I have felt good adding a bunch of my own favorite veg*n businesses & reviewing / promoting others. I suggest that the HappyCow site badly needs more "clarity" - with this I am sure that there will be many more active participants / much better cash flow. "Confidentiality agreement" - I have no idea what this means - I have heard that the "Vril-ya" have a plan to take the HappyCow site over - I read "The Coming Race" back in the 80's & I am "ready" ! ! ! David Bowie - 1971 + Look at your children See their faces in golden rays Don't kid yourself they belong to you They're the start of a coming race The earth is a bitch We've finished our news Homo Sapiens have outgrown their use All the strangers came today And it looks as though they're here to stay + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBQ-S6njQQw Note - family friendly - Bowie also said - "put on some clothes" in the same song / message. Love. Johnny Pretty Thing ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lukemastin.com/utopia/19th.html The Coming Race by Edward Bulwer-Lytton This is an early example of the science fiction genre in which a wealthy independent traveller accidentally discovers an advanced, angel-like race called the Vril-ya living in subterranean caverns. The Vril-ya are able to control, by will-power or by means of a special staff, a latent (and potentially awesomely powerful) source of energy, known as Vril to heal, change or destroy things at will. The Vril-ya are a peaceful, vegetarian, mystical society, without envy, poverty, conflict or hard work. The women are taller and grander than the men and control everything concerned with reproduction of the species. However, lurking in the darkness is a parallel, unevolved race of primitive savages, and it becomes clear that the Vril-ya may not always be able to continue their idyllic way of life.

JohnnySensible · Answer

Warning - this next post is based on "hear-say" evidence - plus a degree of speculation - plus some slight silliness - in time it may be exposed as not being 100% true. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "However, lurking in the darkness is a parallel, unevolved race of primitive savages, ..........." Now I am thinking that Johnny Diablo could actually be a member of this parallel race! It could be dangerous to "complain" about the food, or about anything else in a Vril-ya owned / managed veg*n restaurant or strip club. Your food could be spat in - or you could even be pointed at - http://www.happycow.net/forum/happycow/view_topic.php?id=52 - especially if it is in one of the "Jersey's". Vril-ya have been spotted close to Jersey Cave in New South Wales, Australia - http://www.showcaves.com/english/au/showcaves/Jersey.html - the C14-method of carbon dating has shown evidence of veg*n cooking there from as far back as 440,000 years ago See this page also - a nude / frazzled light Pirates ship - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/5976278 - a light Pirates ship wreck in Queensland, Australia - locally know as the "Vril-ya Point". From the photo you can clearly understand the destructive power of Vril. It is rumoured that a hungry, grand & tall young Vril-ya girl became angry because there was no "Pirates Tavern" veg*n restaurant in this part of Australia. She simply pointed at this light Pirates ship & it was immediately frazzled.

kindlizard · Answer

From Webmaster:
"We are not interesting in supporting any strip club, though it's interesting to hear how HappyCow visitors feel about it."

As a frequent Happycow visitor, I'd like to let you know that I thank you for NOT listing strip clubs.  I don't think listing a place that is not for the sake of food, even if you CAN get a veg burger there, is appropriate.  Though you may get something there that is vegan; you are certainly going there for a completely different purpose.  
That purpose has nothing to do with nourishment.  

That is not a judgment on anyone who chooses to partake, or meaning to be a diatribe on the potential sociological pitfalls or what have you, but I think some of the cows would not be happy, and this is a place for happy cows.

Quasi Vegetarian · Answer

Sooner or later we are bound to get to the naked truth of the matter.

Quasi :)

JohnnySensible · Answer

+++++ Swiss veg*n nudity on the shore of Lake Maggiore +++++ Ascona is a municipality in the district of Locarno in the canton of Ticino in Switzerland. The "Monte Verità" (literally Hill of Truth) in Ascona has an important historical background. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Verita "Co-operative vegetarian colony Monte Verità" Excerpt - The colonists "abhorred private property, practised a rigid code of morality, strict vegetarianism and nudism. They rejected convention in marriage and dress, party politics and dogmas: they were tolerantly intolerant." (see Note 1 below) http://www.upd.unibe.ch/research/symposien/HA11/monteverita2.html Excerpt - In 1907, the author Hermann Hesse underwent a protracted cure for alcoholism on Monte Verità during which time he made friends with vegetarians and artists who had been living there for many years. Much of Hesse's later fiction is set against the backdrop of this enchanted hilltop in Ticino. (see Note 2 - below) Herman Hesse quotes - "When dealing with the insane, the best method is to pretend to be sane." "Words do not express thoughts very well. They always become a little different immediately after they are expressed, a little distorted, a little foolish." Photo's (warning - some are rather cheeky) - http://www.fileane.com/english/monte_verita_english.htm Excerpt - ".........vegetarians there lived in close contact with nature, exposed their naked bodies to the sun, built their huts and houses with their own hands while dreaming with a more peaceful future." ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Note 1 - "practised a rigid code of morality" - though it fell far short of the high "family values" which we officially aspire for here at HC. Note 2 - Alcoholics Anonymous was not started until many years later - "Dr. Bob Smith's last drink on June 10, 1935 is considered by members to be the founding date of AA." Ever since then there has been no need to practise nudity / veg*nism when fighting alcoholism.

JohnnySensible · Answer

1967 - memorable strip club scene I was listening to Narrow Stairs by Death Cab For Cutie a few days ago (Chris Walla & Ben Gibbard both enjoy eating veggies). I was remembering the "original" with George Harrison (veggie) & John Lennon (then macro-biotic) watching the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band sing & perform the song Death Cab For Cutie - 40+ years ago. Vivian Stanshall singing & having the most fun - see it here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omc9lkSjYjc - it is part of the Magical Mystery Tour film. It was filmed at Paul Raymond's Revuebar in London - Jan Carson acted out the strip scene. Related references below - +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From - http://christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?from=searchresults&intObjectID=5101376&sid=775b43c0-65ef-4575-a057-0586b17ff6f2&link=next&page=21 Excerpt - Greg Sams to whom this album is inscribed, with his brother opened and ran London's first macrobiotic restaurant SEED in Bishop's Bridge Road, Paddington, London in 1967. Sams, met Lennon through Yoko whom he'd known for some time. The couple ate at SEED regularly and were devotees of Greg's food. When Yoko and John stayed in Queen Charlotte's hospital following her miscarriage in November, 1968, Sams used to deliver food from his restaurant to them daily. Also at Yoko's request, Sams drove around London finding vegetarian blood donors with compatible blood for the transfusion she needed at the time. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From - http://www.looktothestars.org/news/1178-interview-death-cab-for-cutie-talks-to-look-to-the-stars Excerpt - Individually, Nick and Jason describe Chris Walla as "the PETA guy." Chris has been a vegetarian since he was a teenager. He made a public service announcement for PETA which encourages people to "try vegetarianism". Ben Gibbard is also vegetarian. As a group, Death Cab has supported PETA by giving away copies of the 2005 DVD Drive Well, Sleep Carefully. The teamwork regarding the vegetarian lifestyle and cause also shows up in how they tour. Nick and Jason describe themselves as "conscious omnivores". However, during Death Cab's tours they eat vegetarian meals. Jason said, "We'll roll that way for an entire tour just because it's just easier having food brought in or prepared." "It's easier to say the whole band is vegetarian because we can eat that, for sure, [but] they [Chris Walla and Ben Gibbard] can't eat the other options," added Nick.

veganinvegas · Answer

As far as I can tell, nothing like this here in Vegas (yet?)

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