So as I realize not every farmer is like me, most are though I will say. We love our job, we love taking care of the animals, we love growing the crop that feed or animals. And we care for the well being of our animals. It's important that they're happy, and from an economical perspective, animals grow healthier and at a higher quality when they're happy. Moral of this story is, should there still be an issue with animal domestication if the animals are happy at the end of the day?
Pork and poultry farmer here
I'm not here to judge, just looking for other open minded perspectives. Will respond to questions
Posted by Star the magic vegan at 02/24/17 21:58:25
Yes Josh, there is an issue. You are an animal killer. Go vegan, then you might see the dilemma where you have put yourself. Just because you do not torture your animals first like so many other farmers does not mean what you are doing is correct. You are living at the expense of others. You are enslaving animals, killing them and prospering from those that would ruin their health and eat their flesh. Your self image as a farmer is delusional. You are an executioner. You could make your livelihood entirely from plant and mineral products. Plants and minerals provide us with food, medicine, clothing, shelter, energy and transportation. It is time you rethink your life. Please do not think you will convince anyone in this vegetarian community that you are right. You are here to hear the truth.
Posted by Star the magic vegan at 02/24/17 22:11:04
By the way Josh, that was a mature response. What you want is a feel good for your dark deeds. No one is going to cuddle you. If you can not face the truth, then what are you doing at this web site?
It is your only hope.
Posted by VeganD! at 02/25/17 09:48:56Hi Josh.
I don’t think you are going to get many positive responses from a vegetarian/vegan forum. Although my preference would be to see an end to the rearing of animals for the purposes of feeding humans and human owned animals, it is still important to recognise and encourage any kindness shown to livestock in their frequently short lifespan.
My own grandparents were farmers (pig farm), so I am quite aware of how much farmers can care about their animals. I don’t know whether you have ever attended the slaughter of your own livestock, but if you haven’t, I would suggest you do so. When you see the animals that you have carefully reared and grown to know as individual characters being treated as a mere commodity, you may begin to understand why so many of us turn to veganism. There are numerous undercover documentaries showing the terrible way animals are treated prior to their slaughter and this alone should concern you.
From my own experience, I found pigs to be very loyal, intelligent animals, and even though your farm may care for its livestock, and the pigs may experience a contented life, they certainly do not want it to end prematurely. The question you must ask yourself is whether you can live with the continual chain of rearing an animal with care and love, only to have it slaughtered for the benefit of those who could quite easily live without meat in their diet.
In their hearts, most people know that eating animals is wrong, especially when we have so many healthy alternatives to meat. Unfortunately, most choose to ignore the fact that an animal died just so that they can satisfy their food cravings. As you probably know, the sale of pork plummeted after the film Babe was released, which just shows how much people are willing to change when they begin to equate the meat on their table with a sentient being.
I know that it’s a hard working life as a farmer, but if you love and care for your animals as you say you do, then sending them off to be slaughtered will become a soul destroying process if you ever truly open your mind to the realisation that these animals want to continue to live as much as you do. Closing their mind to this fact is why so many farmers tend to gravitate towards a more commercial view of their livestock, and as a result the concerns for the welfare of the animal are put aside in favour of efficiency and turnover. I hope you don’t end up like these farmers, where profit is above animal welfare.
I sincerely hope that one day you may consider moving away from livestock and instead earn your living from the growth of crops.
Posted by Carisa at 02/25/17 18:56:48I respect your position in regard to animals. I grew up next to a farm so I was accustomed to them too as being raised happy&healthy. I was sad when I befriended a lamb and it had to go. It was literally like a puppy no difference, just the different view by species. I know it's hard work maintaining welfare but this is still only a job of instrumental value -animals are still objects to be slaughtered in the end to create a brief product after the long process.
The demand for meat, makes it more expensive to treat all animals fair for products and some people don't pay extra who don't see the process, Even 'free range' eggs just means cage free chickens including those raised in sheds. Male chicks are useless anyway to the egg industry so they are disposed of at birth like trash.
Animals should be valued and protected as individuals not products. They are who we have the choice everyday to spare the lives of. An abattoir is hell for any animal because no matter how humanely raised the animal is, the demand for meat is high and animals are slaughtered fast so chances are it's going to be painful.
And humane slaughter is such an oxymoron because even if there is little pain, how do you actually humanely kill someone who does not want to die. It's almost the same myth implanted in our brains to make us feel better about eating animal products for instance -milk they say you need it for strong bones but who needs it more than the calf who is taken from its mother just so people can enjoy the taste of her milk.
Those calves are disposed of cruelly at a young age if they're male. We don't think 'not my mum, not my milk'. We just see the packaged item and pick it off the shelf and don't think about it. So in a way from an economical stance, its more difficult to raise animals humanely when there's so much demand for their flesh and secretions. A lot of animals are factory farmed because of the fact people want them on their plates fast and it's hard to meet the demand. But I guess people just don't like seeing animals being abused and all the hormones is overwhelming. No one wants to swallow cruelty.
But It's how different people see it, I mean yeh I'm not a strict Vegan firstly because my parents are strict and don't let me be.. I still question everything and respect people like you who at least acknowledge and have a heart for animals. I just want to cause the least amount of harm where possible because lives are worth it and I have realised there are actually great alternatives to animal products.
Posted by Maisierobinson at 02/26/17 01:12:46hi josh :)
I LOVE that you've come on here curious, and ready to listen. I think we could all take a leaf out of your book. I have definitely jumped on the defensive when talking to family or friends about veganism (i think because it becomes such a personal issue once you've made that connection; that transition). So thank you :)
For me, it's a personal journey, and i just don't see the point in eating animal products. After learning about the environmental issues regarding animal agriculture (watch cowspiracy for more info!), i went vegan overnight because to me the most pressing issue of our time is repairing our planet. I then started thinking about the ethical and health implications. i agree with VeganD!, the majority of people recognise that killing animals is somewhat not right, that's why most (hopefully all) people can't watch slaughterhouse footage without having a reaction. and of course, by removing animal products from our diets, we can prevent most cases of heart disease, type 2 diabetes and some cancer cases. To be fair, I never ate much meat, although i did like really strong cheese, so transitioning wasn't so hard for me.
I also think the domestication of animals is very different from rearing them for the meat or dairy industry: pet dogs and cats etc. are domesticated and people would be appalled if we killed or ate them (just look at western people's reactions to the yulin dog-eating festival). Obviously you know how beautiful and amazing cows are (they are my ultimate favourite animal!), and pigs are supposed to be more intelligent than most animals (including dogs). I think if we had no choice but to eat animals then rearing animals to have a happy life which ultimately ended prematurely and on our plate would be more a valid notion. But the reality is we do have a choice. every day we eat something we have a choice. There are loads of alternatives and all the time we are learning that a plant-based lifestyle is better for us and the planet (and, obviously the animals). i guess my stance is: why kill an animal if you don't have to?
However, i obviously recognise that the meat and dairy industry are sometimes integral to people's cultures and traditions. It's such a hard one. I don't know about where you're from, but in the uk, farmer subsidies are decreasing and farmers are constantly squeezed and pressed to the point where i'm not sure how much money you could make solely growing crops.
what's your experience? Do you think farmer's who grow solely plants are worse off? Are you asking because you just want to know more or are you questioning the morals of your work? or maybe just testing out your arguments?
but anyway...haha that was such an essay and i don't know how to end it... sorry!
all the best (and keep asking those questions!)
Posted by ahimsa32fa at 02/26/17 12:51:35Some great comments here, but also evidence that many folks don't realize that the meat and dairy industries are very heavily subsidized by federal funds (taxpayers pay), and both meat and dairy products would be prohibitively priced beyond the means of average folks if not for that...
I try not to be as hard on meat-eaters as I used to be, as I was one of them till I entered my thirties (1970s). We all have done things that we aren't all that proud of, so throwing stones is generally not an effective response to those who have yet to see the light...
Posted by happah10 at 02/28/17 01:16:19I'll make this short.
Vegans typically have an issue with th exploitation of animals, whether they appear to be happy or not.
They may look happy but they really don't know they're going to be slaughtered or they don't know what happiness is.
From an animal rights perspective, Animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on or use for entertainment.