Things you think are vegan, but aren't

Question

I was just writing a response to a post about using blackstrap molasses, when it suddenly occurred to me that it might not be vegan. I recently learned that sometimes sugar is processed through bone char. (I don't even know what that means really but it sounds nasty). And isn't molasses  a by product of processing sugar?

So not all sugar is vegan. I was wondering what else is there to be aware of? 

Another thing I learned is that many cheeses contain an ingredient called rennet. I never knew this, but rennet is taken from the stomach of a calf and used in the making of cheese, which means it's taken from a slaughtered baby. This means that most cheeses aren't even vegetarian. 

What other things are out there that we would think are vegan but actually aren't?

herwin · Answer

good grief, not the sugar debate again. >_%3C

first of all, i think most vegetarians and all vegans know about rennet in cheese. nothing new.

ok, sugar.
so, for some sugars in the productionproces, bone char might have been used, but even ifbonechar is used, the sugar itself has zero traces nor any other animal ingredients in it and is 100% sugar, and, according to you such sugar is "not vegan."

so according you, any ingredient or thing that is produced in a line up that contains some kind of animal ingredient, but that final product itself doesnt contain any animal ingredient, is "not vegan".

interesting.

that means that most probably nothing on Planet Earth is vegan. I cant imagine any factory that would be totally vegan, so by your logic the things they produce are also not vegan.

another point of debate is, that if you decide sugar might not be vegan, well, good luck, you wont find that information on the sugar package, its a mystery, so if you add that rule to yr vegan rules list, from now on you cannot use sugar anymore AND all items that have sugar in it bc these sugars you cannot know at all or find out if its "vegan."

always fun these sugar debates, and perhaps we can restart the honey debate, or talk about the ants we brutally murder everyday with our walking. or maybe the glue or another small part of our smartphones is not vegan? so than to be a "pure vegan" we cant use smartphones anymore. lets make life complicated.

dimamuzhetsky · Answer

Correct,there CAN be some ingredients.So just try to avoid food,made by some1 else!Its about all 1 can do!Best if either you or someone from your home prepares the food,THEN you can be reasonably sure,not otherwise!

Crito · Answer

Rennet - Yes, this is ONE reason that cheese is not vegetarian.  Others include that the claves bred for milk are turned into veal or more dairy cows and the dairy cows stop producing milk after 5 years and are slaughtered for cheap hamburger meat, eventhough they'd live to 18-20 yrs on their own.  Combine this with the rape and confinement of dairy cows and really, vegetarians take part in a far more cruel industry than someone who ate meat but not dairy (like some lactose intolerant meat eaters I know).

Sugar - Yes.  And while herewin, who I love, is a bit aggressive in the response, it's a spot on summary of this issue.

You can go to the extent of mistreated bees being confined and used to pollinate almond farms and avocado farms, so those products are not vegan....

There's no limit to it.  By existing you are always taking up resources and land that would have been used by another species and you emit and create waste that is detrimental to animals and the planet.  So the goal is really, find your line (hopefully it's beyond meat and dairy, but just before giving up almonds) and do the best you can.  This isn't an all or nothing lifestyle.  Just do the best you can do.

And as for sugar....really....we should be avoiding it altogether anyway.  It's highly processed and nutritionally void.  Sweeteners like maple syrup and dates (or you can make a very easy date syrup at home) are a far better option.

Flattlander · Answer

No seriously I'm not trying to be all pure and that, I just learned about bone char and as I said I don't even know what that means, so thanks for the clarification. I've read plenty of posts so I've already figured out herwin's style and that's fine, at least you know what he really thinks. But the point is, what's not vegan that maybe I hadn't thought of. I know what gelatin is, but I didn't always know that, I was shocked when I learned what it is. (years ago of course) I used sugar as an example, I wondered what else. But my question got hijacked and someone assumed that I'm a purist because I talked about sugar. And now the thread is all about being fluffy, pure and rainbows and cotton candy instead of uncovering some of the sneaky things that I might not have realized. Most supplements have gelatin caps, I didn't even think of it until I had taken almost half the bottle already. Stuff like that, that's what I'm talking about.

Flattlander · Answer

According to me, nothing, you're making a lot of assumptions and I don't appreciate it. Maybe YOU need to use some logic and discretion. By the way, I eat honey. Just don't buy it often because it's expensive. But if it's in a food, I'll still eat it.

Crito · Answer

I don't buy honey.  I also don't freak out if I accidentally buy a product that has it, but I try to avoid it.  The ethics stink, but also to me the idea of a highly concentrated regurgitated sugar is just....nasty.

Things I didn't realize were not vegan though.....hmmm, I'll think on that.  I've had quite a few that I was shocked WERE vegan.  Like Twizzlers and Oreos.  Or to your point on gelatin, I've had products that I don't buy because of that, then find out the company uses a plant-based gelatin.

WuThree · Answer

If you're in the UK, most commonly sold branded sugars come from sugarbeet rather than cane.  Beet sugar production does not involve bone char.  I don't know about the US, or EU. 

I found the original info on the Vegan Society's faq pages, which said bone char is not used for beet sugar, and then I searched for further info using "beet sugar brands uk" as the search.

herwin · Answer

haha oh its true. i am one of those ppl who just write what pops up in my mind as if we are talking face to face. but, with no facial expression sometimes  the same words can sound harsh. i gotta use more emojis😄:-)😄to indicate i say it with a smile and not like this.😒:-(
Reading Critos reply i can learn from his style... :-)

absolute valid question from Flatlander.😄
i just wanted to add a "warning"😄that we always should be careful and distinguish between the core issues and trivial issues. :-)

Honey. I dont eat it. largescale commercial  beefarms regularly burn all the hivenests including all the bees. 
but than again, one vegan friend does eat honey and he explained why. 
some issues are so fringe, we should tolerate from eachother what we personally decide.
for me, i didnt go vegan for the bees but bc i saw images of the factory farm animals.
gelatine capsules. i dont care too much. i buy b12 capsules, how the heck do i know if its gelatine and if so, i have little alternatives.
beer? should i check if a beer is "vegan"? for me, i stico to labelreading, if the label has non vegan ingredients i dont buy it. if the ingredients on the label are all plant based, its good enough for me.
but anyway, its a valid question and well worthy discussing. so thx flatlander for posting it. 
:-)😄:-)

Crito · Answer

Haha hope you didn’t take that in a critical way. I like your posts and don’t think you need to change a thing. 

Gelatin bothers me quite a bit being sourced from animal bones so I try to avoid at all costs.

herwin · Answer

gelatin is so nasty! especially bc its in kids candy. i did explain to my son about gelatin (its bones from animals) so he is very carefull about that. so how does that work for yr kid(s)? they understand about the gelatin?

beer. i mentioned it but nobody responded. does anyone actually google to find out if the brand you are about to buy or drink, is actually "vegan"?

i feel we vegans all start the same more or less, we find out about the massive cruelty and we rightfully decide we cant possible contribute to that, so we go vegan.
just like Flatlander (where art thy, oh Flatlander) shortly after that, we discover that IN THE MOST UNEXPECTED FOOD ITEMS there are animal ingredients (like, the color green in watericecream can be made from crushed insects.)
So than i feel that many new vegans, including myself😄can get carried away and loose oneself in small details and forgettingabout the core. I mean, i became vegans bc of the horrors of the slaughterhouse, not bc icepospicles are sometimes colored withcrushed insect.😉
crushed insects, gelatin capsules, vegan and non vegan beer, and sugar, i treat as trivia; nice and entertaining to know but not something which is a guide in my daily life.😄:-) :-)

Mountainmystic · Answer

Never thought about beer not being vegan. Looked it up online. Sure enough some brewers use gelatin and other animal based ingredients in the brewing process to clarify the beer. I don't drink beer or alcohol though. 

I read ingredient labels a lot. We can only do what we can. I don't get lost in details. I agree with Herwin. No vegan is perfect. One can't microanalyze everything one eats. One will do more harm to oneself via stress and frustration. Vegans rock!

herwin · Answer

yes thx Mountainmystic, thats a bit similar to what i mean.😄
oh thats cool you were spared of the great Vegan Beer Discussion. ;-)
One of my guiding mottos is "dont let perfect be thd enemy of good." ( i alsolike yr "we can only do what we can"
yes it adds to stress and frustration and actually can refrain ppl from going vegan or after a while new vegans quitting bc it seems too overwelming and difficult.😄

Crito · Answer

Funny you mention that. Last night we had family over for a bbq and someone brought wine. I went to open it and my wife said “do we know if that’s vegan?”  I was confused but apparently some wine makers will use some kind of fish byproduct in the process. I had no idea. 

In cases like that, I won’t buy it if I’m aware but I won’t freak out if I drink it and find out later it wasn’t vegan. 

My kids are both under 3 so not much to explain. We just don’t buy anything with gelatin. And really they don’t eat anything processed. Their candy is berries.

herwin · Answer

well? what happened? you told yr family first you have to google if the wine is vegan? was it vegan, did u drink? if it wouldnt be vegan, you would tell yr family "sorry not vegan we dont drink"? details pls.😄

Pavia · Answer

As a new vegan, doing research has helped me live the lifestyle I'm striving for, to make my life better. I found a few videos on YouTube that really opened my eyes to how practical being a vegan can be and how surprising it is to find out that some foods are vegan.
Like Hershey's Chocolate Syrup haha. And unfrosted poptarts. One of the videos I think can help any new vegan get a good picture of the variety you can have in your new diet is this YouTube video.
 https://dausel.co/k0TyX8.

If you check that video out, the girl in it who made the video is so clear. Makes everything simple. If I hadn't watched it I don't think I would be so excited about my new choice to become vegan. So if anyone else likes this video, please talk to me about it because most of my friends and family are not vegan and it's cool to come to a site like this to discuss different views of dieting.
https://dausel.co/k0TyX8

Crito · Answer

My mom brought the wine from a winery near her home. She knows one of the pourers there and texted them to confirm it was in fact vegan. 

I try to be as passive as I can be but one the idea is in my head it bugs me.

herwin · Answer

it would be such a weird and ungrateful moment if the person bringing the wine calls and checks, and replies "its not vegan".😄there would be a silence and a "no thanx but i dont drink it" counterreply. dreadfull.😄anyway thx for sharing bc i like these real life details. and oh, i like your "it bugs me" reply.😄waiting now for Peta to complain.😉

Crito · Answer

Ha!

herwin · Answer

and btw Crito, you mention Oreo cookies are vegan. most vegans think so. but it might not be true. i just ate an Oreo cookie, the regular ones and although it doesnt contain cow milk or egg, the ingredient list reads "additives are sourced from plant and synthetic origins except for carmine (insect)"
i took a photo from the ingredients unfortunately cant upload it with this HC post.
so yeah hell fck there is an insect in yr Oreo cookie. what r u gonna do with that precious new information?

Crito · Answer

I didn't know they had carmine in them!  That and I think Red Lake coloring (or one of the # Red Lakes) are made from ground up beetles.  Nasty!

I haven't touched an Oreo since going vegan thankfully.  Really trying to focus on whole foods.....but some of the mock meat stuff is fantastic and too easy.

herwin · Answer

i didnt know also until just a few days ago. >_%3C it was one of those moments. anyway, who ever did come up with the idea of "hey lets ground up some insects and put it in the cookies!" idea. crazy. 
wholefood yeah its the best.

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