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Vegan / Vegetarian Discussion - All Things Veg*n Forum

Has anyone had any issues with people in the abolitionist movement attacking others who are not, but that are in the AR movement and saving animals as much as possible? I've had several run-in's with such people, who bash every welfare movement person and others who are actually trying to do something for the animals -

Does anyone have a idea why this is happening or why we vegans have to deal with other vegans bashing us? What is going on in this movement?? It makes me so sad!~ I thought we had a great team!

Responses (6)

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    Posted by Checkmass at 10/30/09 12:03:07

    Because some people feel a bit more passionate about a cause than others.

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    Posted by photosynthesize at 11/12/09 17:14:27

    It really depends on what the militant vegans do. I have no problem if someone raids a fur farm and releases all the animals as they directly are helping the animals, but when vegans do crimes such as blowing up a KFC, it does not directly help animals, and it just gives vegans a bad name.

    Remember events like the Boston Tea Party, where tons of British tea were dumped into Boston harbor because the Americans didn't like the tea tax the Brittish imposed on them. It certainly would've caused more economic damage than blowing up a KFC or raiding a fur farm. Although it certainly must've seemed extremist back then and I'm sure that there were many opponents of a more peaceful way to get rid of the tax, the Boston Tea Party is now a celebrated part of America's past and is part of the reason why we are now a free country.

    By welfarist, I assume that you mean that they are against people who try to make the lives of farmed animals better by improving factory farm or slaughterhouse conditions. I am against it, as it makes it seem as though if an animal experiences less pain, then it makes it okay to murder the animal. The only good thing I can see about it is that it brings light to the issue. But I would never attack someone for having welfarist views, because they are still improving the lives for the animals, if only by a little.

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    Posted by shearwater at 11/13/09 07:53:34

    Animal welfare is different from animal rights. Welfarists are generally people who support animal shelters, dog rescue organizations, etc., all good causes. But in general they eat meat and ignore the suffering of animals beyond household pets and horses.

    A representative from a local group called Friends Of All Animals was being interviewed about an upcoming event and he went to great lengths to distance his group from extremists like PETA and HSUS who he pointed out oppose hunting and meat. He was promoting a fundraiser for an animal shelter - a barbecue I believe. Obviously they're not friends to ALL animals.

    Actually I and a lot of other "extremist" vegans do want to make life better for animals imprisoned and sentenced to death in farms, slaughterhouses, zoos, circuses, and everywhere else. This in no way contradicts our overall belief and goal to end all cruelty. It's just a step on the way and a realization that since we're not going to stop all suffering today at least we can try to minimize the pain for those currently caught in this web of human cruelty. What's the alternative? Because we can't achieve total victory immediately do we ignore the suffering we can stop?

    In the meantime humane laws and practices that result from these "small" victories set legal precedence and influence public opinion that animals do indeed suffer and are not merely living machines as some believe. Getting people to treat animals better helps animals and our cause now and in the long run.

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    Posted by AndyT at 07/01/10 05:27:01

    On one hand, I have a hard time to take animal rights advocates seriously who try to help homeless dogs and cats but at the same time enjoy their burger.

    However, I do not shun them (at least not any more as I shun my friends and family members who also eat meat, but possibly do not care about animal rights).

    I also do not see much value in vegans bashing vegetarians because they also should give up milk and cheese - to me that seems a bit like a helpless reaction that they are not able to convince meat-eaters not to eat meat, so they lash out on vegetarians and tell them how bad they are. I was a vegetarian for 20 years and recently turned vegan, and I am happy about anybody who refrains from eating one single burger or who donates to animal welfare ...

    Best regards,
    Andy

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    Posted by Chase Morgan at 09/26/10 14:54:54

    What would Martin Luther Kings peaceful message have changed without the threat of Malcom Xs insurrection? Issues such as these are wars with many fronts and all must be fought.

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    Posted by JohnnySensible at 09/26/10 18:18:27

    Here I agree with you entirely CH!

    Just last week I was listening to Maya Angelou discussing her life very openly & remembering Malcolm X.
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    Somewhat unconnected to Militant Veganism - ......but great listening.

    Maya Angelou audio - where she discusses her selective mutism / autism with Don Swaim - http://wiredforbooks.org/mayaangelou/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Angelou
    At age eight, while living with her mother, Angelou was sexually abused and raped by her mother's boyfriend, Mr. Freeman. She confessed it to her brother, who told the rest of their family. Freeman was found guilty, but was jailed for one day. Four days after his release, he was found kicked to death, probably by Angelou's uncles. Angelou became mute, believing, as she has stated, "I thought, my voice killed him; I killed that man, because I told his name. And then I thought I would never speak again, because my voice would kill anyone..." She remained nearly mute for five years.

    .......plus she talks about her memories of the artist Tom Feelings who joined her in Ghana in 1964 - ....... plus connected mentions Malcolm X.

    More on the Ghana period - http://www.the-criterion.com/2010/08/the-african-roots-in-maya-angelou%E2%80%99s-all-god%E2%80%99s-children-need-travelling-shoes/