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  Posted by Tatiana at 11/18/07 13:56:47

  Yep, traditional rennet is not vegetarian. Some cheese manufacturers are now using artificial rennet (plant based, etc) but most of the "fancy" cheeses are still made with real rennet.
  
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet
  
  If you're not sure, you can always ask your manufacturer. Just because it says "rennet" doesn't specify animal or plant origin.

  
  
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  Posted by JohnnySensible at 11/18/07 20:22:59

  My thought - don't even bother asking the cheese manufacturer.
  
  You will be happier & healthier if you forget about all varieties of cruel "cows blood cheese".
  
  This is HappyCow.net - cheese manufacturing makes cows unhappy / dead.
  
  Forget "goats blood cheese" also!

  
  
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  Posted by Tatiana at 11/26/07 16:19:24

  Here is a resource from Trader Joe's to help you pick out cheese's that are animal rennet-free
  www.traderjoes.com/Attachments/rennet_test.pdf

  
  
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  Posted by Rafael at 11/27/07 03:34:53

  Rennet is from the murder of cows - US milk & cheese are from the torture of cows.
  
  Now I will "shout" a little -
  
  STOP PROMOTING COW CRUELTY ON HAPPYCOW.NET

  
  
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  Posted by Tatiana at 11/27/07 11:45:19

  No one is promoting animal cruelty. I am trying to help people to educate themselves. You can't ask everyone to eat the way you do but you can educate them to make the best decisions they can. I hate to say it, but a lot of people are going to eat cheese and drink milk anyway but at least we can help them to understand exactly what it is they are buying (yes, including the horrid environment many of these animals are raised in). Please do not try to put words in my mouth or intentions in my mind that are not there. We are all here to help each other out, don't be rude.

  
  
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  Posted by Tatiana at 11/27/07 11:59:05

  Just to continue my thought (I was a bit angry earlier and I apologize), I am just trying to be fair to everyone and open-minded to everyone's position. If people choose to eat cheese (which many of the board members likely do) I want them to be educated on what is going into that cheese. Yes, you are absolutely right on the animal cruelty for the milk/cheese portion. I did not mean in any way to gloss over that, I was just providing specific information as it related to this topic. I would just please appreciate the benefit of the doubt, especially as you do not know me or know much about my posts, etc. I would think that as compassionate human beings we can all give each other a little respect and love for sharing similar thoughts on life. Yes, we are all different and have different views, but please let's all try to be civil and try to limit the inflammatory remarks. If you would like to share information, please do so. People respond better to that then yelling.

  
  
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  Posted by JohnnySensible at 11/28/07 00:41:24

  From an interview - Eric the founder of HappyCow speaking -
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  "The name, HappyCow, came to me while thinking about all the farmed cows I had seen off the side of a Northern California freeway during my college years. It was obvious to me that the cows were living in terrible conditions, kept as commodities to be slaughtered and sold for food. I thought to myself that if human beings did not eat cows, that kind of situation wouldn't exit for the cows and they would be happy living out their lives wildly and naturally (or, perhaps, most of them wouldn't have been bred to exist in the first place)."
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  Guys my "take" on HappyCow is that it is a site which really helps people to find cruelty-free food as they travel - the "so-called" vegetarian & veg-friendly businesses are listed on HappyCow as you have a good chance of finding some cruelty-free dishes in those places.
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  That is why I support & contribute to HappyCow.
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  If I wanted advice on where to buy fine cheeses / dairy there are superbly constructed "gourmet" food sites in abundance.
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  I love HappyCow because the focus is not on "gourmet" - the focus is "kindness to animals".
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  Cheese could come with a printed "Warning" - like cigarettes.
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  "By consuming this cheese you are blocking your "tubes" / severely damaging your health. By consuming this cheese you are directly responsible for the murder / torture of many cows".
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  To me lacto & ovo diets are no different from meat diets, if the milk & eggs which are consumed come from intensive farming / the torture & murder of animals.
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  Trader Joe's dairy cheese's are made from the milk of tortured female animals which will be slaughtered when they have reached only 20% to 30% of their normal lifespan. The related unwanted male animals will be slaughtered much more quickly.
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  Do animals not have rights?
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  Does anyone have the "right" to torture & murder cows / chickens / other animals?
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  Is my thinking wrong?
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  My experience is that only very inflexible, selfish & "blocked" people can continue to consume dairy & eggs if they are really aware of the horrendous suffering of the animals whose "products" they are consuming.
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  Yes they are the "majority". I really like & appreciate fact that HappyCow does not target the "majority". I have never had any ambition to be a part of the "majority".
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  Yes - certainly help "people" to understand exactly what they are buying / consuming - I am 100% in agreement with you on that point Tatiana.
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  Dairy cheese / animal milks / eggs are usually products of intense animal cruelty! Only a very few sanctuaries / religious organizations have farms where animals are allowed to live for the whole of their natural lifespan.
  

  
  
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  Posted by Tatiana at 11/28/07 01:22:24

  Wow Johnny, that info is astounding and absurd and I'm so glad you were posted it. By saying the products are made with "vegetable rennet" or "microbial rennet" they make is sound less harmful but it really is not. I live in Northern California myself and see these beautiful animals on a regular basis and see those horrible trucks driving down the freeway to take them to the feedlots in the valley.
  
  Thank you for taking the info I providing and painting the full picture. I only hope that more people can come to realize what they are eating and make changes in their own lives.
  
  
  and to Rafael - COW CRUELTY SUX!! :P

  
  
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  Posted by Stig at 11/29/07 02:34:02

  Nice posting! - good to read! - "5 Happy Cows" to this thread!

  
  
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  Posted by JohnnySensible at 11/30/07 07:19:48

  Thank you Stig! - how's about meeting for lunch in Khana Khazana on Sunday? - is anyone else available & hungry in Hong Kong this weekend?

  
  
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  Posted by Tatiana at 11/30/07 12:06:25

  johnny, I'd love to if I weren't on the other side of the Pacific! I hope you guys get to go and have a great time!

  
  
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  Posted by AlmostVeggie at 12/13/07 15:17:47

  Lining of calves stomaches? *vomits* Sorry guys, I'm a bit uneducated about animal byproducts. That's gross, but it's also horrible how they treat cows.

  
  
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  Posted by Tatiana at 12/13/07 16:47:15

  I'm glad you've learned some here. It is so sad that most (and I mean like 95%+ most) people don't know what is in their food or how it's made. I think it is excellent you are here to learn and change your life. ^_^

  
  
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  Posted by AlmostVeggie at 12/13/07 20:29:26

  Thanks, Tatiana and thank you to the rest of you for all the wonderful information you have bestowed upon this forum.

  
  
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  Posted by Hazel-rah at 12/28/07 02:24:08

  Another point to look at here is that we are the only species to drink milk past infancy, and from another species at that. Even before I knew about the atrocious cruelty involved in dairy production, I always thought dairy consumption was completely unnatural. And in my own humble opinion, it tastes bad.
  Yeah, so there! I like happy cows!

  
  
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  Posted by Just_Joan at 03/07/08 09:34:29

  Thank you Tatiana, for the helpful information-
  I quit eating meat about a month ago (surprisingly easily) & have just this morning (while looking online for viable fast-food options) been introduced to the term "renet".
  Your post was the first thing I found on google & your link was very helpful.
  Dairy products are, & will continue to be a part of my diet, (it's a good thing I'm I grownup & get to do whatever I want to, regardless of what the other kids say) & I am interested to know more-
  My personal preference is for the animals I have a hand in murdering to be slowly milked to death, rather than outright slaughtered, much as we have been in my two mother household, over 6 children & the past 11 years (funny that being milked for so long doesn't seem to have aged us or adversely affected our health, probably because we have supplemented & replenished our own depleted calcium with lots of dairy products)-
  
  Are the calves killed to harvest the renet? Or is it cultured from some historical slaughter?
  
  Does the information in your link apply only to "Trader Joe's" cheese? or most cheeses in general?
  
  
  Oh, & as far as those "few sanctuaries & religious organizations" that allow dairy animals to live out their natural life-spans-
  I think this must be a very urban view-point, here in rural Kentucky it's difficult to throw a vegan soy-burger without it bouncing off of a roaming chicken which exists solely to provide eggs for the family who maintains it-
  just a few chickens can supply eggs for you, your family, & most of your friends while you scratch your head & wonder what to do with the rest of them. It's true that the historically rooted farm-culture here is not very conducive or receptive to the consideration of animal rights, but most of the people here are economically depressed, & aren't about to trade a life-time supply of eggs for one night's chicken dinner.
  
  Thanks

  
  
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  Posted by Tatiana at 03/07/08 11:59:14

  Joan - I am not sure if the calves are killed just for rennet or if it happens to also be calves used for veal, etc. Regardless of what the calves were used for, they must still be killed to harvest the rennet. Trader Joe's is not the only place with other types of rennet in some of their cheese, other places sell it, too (such as Whole Foods).
  
  Just remember, though, as much of this thread has pointed out, just because it was made with vegetable or microbial rennet doesn't mean it is cruelty free.
  
  Interesting thought about urban vs rural viewpoints. I think people forget that there are still some people in this country who do raise their own animals for eggs/dairy, and even some meat. Now what people think about that is up to them but I think it's good to let people know about things that they might not be familiar with.