Should we trust PETA?
Posted by wildwildwilder at 09/24/2010
I've tried to found another thread about this, but didn't. I'm sorry if this was already posted before but i wanted to know your opinions. I've heard stories about PETA and Greenpeace. How they don't do what they say they do and how they focus more on money then other things. Should we trust them, in your opinions?
(if you look at the board on your right, it's kind of scary.)
"Greenpeace makes more money from anti-whaling than Norway and Iceland combined make from whaling. In both cases, the whales die and someone profits. "
rmark25 at 09/25/2010 09:45:01
Just be a good person and live how you want to live according to your beliefs...
the world is not perfect I guess
JohnnySensible at 09/26/2010 05:51:39
This post is going to be a collection of links - but good ones.
See - http://www.happycow.net/forum/animal_rights/view_topic.php?id=156
Ambitious individuals such as Francione / Berman / Martosko / the nightmarish Feral & Hall / Winograd etc. throw a lot of money & effort trying to slur Peta / ALF / other active groups.
Much more here - http://www.happycow.net/forum/vegetarian/view_topic.php?id=110
- and here - http://www.happycow.net/forum/vegetarian/view_topic.php?id=95
- and here - http://www.happycow.net/forum/happycow/view_topic.php?id=44
Greenpeace - I remember when it was a wonderful group - the real activists were forced out / left a long time ago & formed groups such as - Sea Shepherd - http://www.happycow.net/forum/vegetarian/view_topic.php?id=318 - http://www.seashepherd.org/
HappyCow is a Peta Business Friend - http://www.peta.org/donate/ways-to-support-peta/PETA-business-friends.aspx
JohnnySensible at 09/26/2010 18:52:29
- the man who owns the anti-Peta site & many other similar anti-animal sites.
“The industry is so competitive that chains play into the tactics of PETA, one at a time,” grumbles Rick Berman, who heads up the Center for Consumer Freedom (formerly the Guest Choice Network), a group that forcefully advocates the public's right to smoke, drink, and eat as it pleases.
A classic Berman quote - referring to Burger King etc. - he is 'losing' and he hates it.
The quote was lifted from here - http://vegansunshine.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/restaurants-should-fight-petas-anti-meat-agenda/
JohnnySensible at 09/26/2010 21:31:53
Question from Michael Shapiro -
How do you view protest versus intervention?
Paul Watson's response -
A couple of years ago 60 Minutes Australia did a piece in which a Greenpeace spokesperson said he was opposed to Sea Shepherd because we were violent and that Greenpeace's approach was to bear witness. I was just appalled. Bearing witness – you know, you don't walk down the street and see a woman being raped and do nothing. You don't walk down the street and see a kitten or a puppy being stomped to death and do nothing. You don't walk down the street and see a child being molested and do nothing. And you don't go down there and watch whales die and hold signs and do nothing. I just find this bearing witness another word for cowardice. So that really offended me that they would say that.
We're an interventionist organization, not a protest organization. Protest is very submissive – it's like saying, "please please, please, don't kill the whales." Then they go and kill them anyway – nobody cares. The fact is, you gotta stop them – you're dealing with ruthless people, and you have to stop them. But you have to do it in a responsible way, which just means you don't hurt them.
Full interview here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/sep/21/sea-shepherd-paul-watson-whales
CandyKisses at 10/01/2010 22:02:22
tenderlumpling at 10/02/2010 21:48:19
Also, I found their "Save The Whales!" campaign (here: keetsa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/peta-save-the-whales-billboard.jpg) to be the single most offensive, disgusting thing I had ever seen in my life; not just as a feminist, but as someone with a sense of decency and basic value of people's feelings. It was cruel and uncalled for, and if I ever had any respect for PETA, I lost it all at that point.
jive at 10/03/2010 03:09:37
But I do agree that people should not be whored out for any cause. If someone is going veg because they think it is sexier (as one such PETA ad suggests), then they are missing the point of going veg altogether.
wildwildwilder at 10/03/2010 20:47:50
About the PETA campaign, i agree. I thought the Save the Whales was really horrible. I agree they bring awarness and that they're powerful but why? Do you need to denigrate others to make your message more valuable? No. And I also think that it's one of the many reason why a lot of non-vegetarian hate them.
JohnnySensible at 10/04/2010 00:12:48
tenderlumpling - have a great day.
jive - no mention of 'phases' but a we have new gem -
'then they are missing the point of going veg altogether'
- what is this 'point'? - this could be the basis of a whole new thread!!
Time for some much more sensible content.
Here is Peta's Ingrid Newkirk commenting on 'Save the Whales' for The Huffington Post - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/26/petas-new-save-the-whales_n_261134.html
Ingrid - + America's obesity epidemic calls for tough love à la Dr. Phil and America's Biggest Loser, not more coddling and mock shock over a billboard pointing out that the majority of fat people need to have some discipline and remember that being fat means being a bad role model to our children, many of whom are now so fat themselves that "teeter-totter" has come to describe their wobbly gait.
Going meat-free can make a huge difference. Studies show that vegetarians are, on average, 10 to 20 pounds lighter than meat-eaters and that a vegetarian diet reduces our risk of heart disease by 40 percent and adds seven or more years to our lifespan.
PETA's billboard was fueled by a healthy respect for all the animals who are raised cruelly and killed in painful ways as well as for our own species's potential to be kind and healthy. +
Rooibos at 02/14/2011 16:37:29
Because all that tripe you posted - those links? It's all carefully crafted bad public relations campaign to discredit not just PETA, but HSUS and other solid organizations who DO get results on behalf of animals.
Next time, get the facts about the "Center for Consumer Freedom" (more accurately called "Con-artists for Crapitalist Exploitation of Everything/one") and how they attack anyone who gets in the way of their clients' insane, greedy, and insensitive lust for money through the exploitation of animals and humans.
Read about the CCF and how they lie about humane organizations and other worthy causes here:
Wyrdnight at 02/15/2011 11:49:56
Autism is a spectrum genetic neurological disorder. A genetic disorder isn't caused by dairy consumption to my knowledge.
I'm not attacking PETA but this would make me doubt some of their messages as I know genetics aren't related to dairy consumption.
JohnnySensible at 02/16/2011 02:51:04
Ingesting the milks of other animals is cruelly insane & the side effects are horrible - all of them - always.
Wyrdnight at 02/16/2011 12:21:22
JohnnySensible at 02/16/2011 17:16:27
You wrote something which is sensationalist / blatantly untrue & you expect me to pm you!
Your words - ".....in this campaign they say that dairy causes Autism."
No they did not.
Read more carefully - http://www.peta.org/features/got-autism-learn-about-the-link-between-dairy-products-and-the-disease.aspx
An interesting page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_figures_sometimes_considered_autistic
Wyrdnight at 02/17/2011 02:05:23
They said in the link I posted "The reason why dairy foods may worsen or even cause autism is being debated". Also, the title, "Learn About the Link Between Dairy Products and the Disease". Can you see how I could easily think they they're suggesting that dairy causes a genetic condition?
I've talked to many people on the Autistic Spectrum who have gone dairy free and they've said it had no effect on their communication issues. They still had to focus intensely on the non-verbal signals and were still really tired after all this effort. There are many dangerious 'diets' that Autistics are told will 'cure' them. I'll add that there have been scans done of Autistic brains and brains considered to be Neurologicly typical and they've seen differences in the brain structure.
I don't doubt for some that dairy does nasty things, it doesn't have this effect on everyone. I do know that in many countries cows have bad lives. I've been to a few Dairy farms in my country and the cows have been treated well but I know that that is not the way it works in every country, I also know that this may not be the case for every dairy cow in my country but I can only know what I've seen so far.
If you feel I've been offensive, I am sorry for that. I felt attacked by your post, I suggested for you to pm me because I don't tend to feel attacked in a pm and I didn't want to spam this thread with our conversation. I realise you probably responded in the way you did due to feeling I was attacking PETA. I was saying that I doubt PETA based on what I've been told by others on the Autistic Spectrum. I don't doubt their information about cruelty but I would doubt their other information.
JohnnySensible at 02/17/2011 03:57:54
Giving up dairy is just about the best dietary decision that a human can make.
"...... and the cows have been treated well ......" - unreal!
Please take a peek at - http://www.ciwf.ie/farminfo/farmfacts_veal.html
~ + In the Republic of Ireland, the majority of calves used for the veal trade are the male calves of the dairy herd. The calves are separated from their mothers at only a few days old. They are transported to veal production systems in Continental Europe. + ~
~ + the possibility of 350,000 bull calves being produced [annually] from an expanded dairy cow herd of 1.6-1.7m cows in the coming years, the trial results will give some indication of the best methods of producing dairy beef in the future.
The first batch of calves have already been slaughtered at eight months of age,...... + ~
~ + "Dairy farmers just want to get the bull calves off the farm but finishers don't want them until they are a few months old, he said. "There is an opportunity there for some beef farmers to specialise in rearing calves from a few days old to maybe 12 weeks old." + ~
You are displaying unbelievable ignorance Wyrdnight - .....or are you just callous!
Ireland is a hell for farmed animals.
Wyrdnight at 02/17/2011 04:34:51
If you read that paragraph in full you would see where I said "I also know that this may not be the case for every dairy cow in my country but I can only know what I've seen so far". In this I state clearly that there are limits to what I know and have seen regarding dairy production.
About milk production, I'm NOT saying that it is good, I'm NOT saying that it is kind. I was only saying that the cows (milk prducing females) looked well, they were out in fields when weather permitted and kept in when weather was bad.
About milk itself, I was saying that it doesn't effect everyone badly and it doesn't make it easier to read body language or increase social skills when omitted from the diet.
If I didn't care about animals I wouldn't have stopped eating flesh of everything with a heartbeat when alive.
I know what they do to male calves, I know what they do when a cow can't produce milk anymore but when the females are there on the farms I've seen, they don't seem in distress. Perhaps I've been on farms where the farmer was treating them better than is average.
sunshine7 at 02/17/2011 14:04:37
Many people criticized PETA for putting dogs and cats to sleep but people don't know the condition of animals and how those animals were tortured in shelters because of lack of $$$$$.
I saw picturs of dogs who were put to death to stop suffering. If you did not see, you are lucky because condition of animals were so gruesome and heartbreaking.
There wasn't way to save those animals with last stage of cancer.
PETA was doing dirty work irresponsible pet owners created.
Blame on PET BREEDERS WHO ARE CONTINUE TO CONTRIBUTING TO PET POPULATION EXPLOSION TRAGEDY.
Did you read the message of animal control officer wrote?
I think he titled "I gas cats and dogs to make living"
Also blame on irresponsible pet owners who never spay/neuter their dogs and cats.
PETA is courageous organization and never hesitate to expose animal torture and killing in large POWERFUL corporations.
How many people became vegans after they learned about horror in meat,dairy, egg industries by PETA??
My guess is people who criticize PETA harshly are meat,dairy, egg eaters who only love cats and dogs.
Needless to say, I had hard time with these people when I exposed horror in meat,dairy, egg industries and being banned from their forum.
To be fair and honest, I need to blame on myself little knowing I wasn't polite when I was so frustrated and angry with meat,dairy, egg lovers who think normal people eat farm animal flesh and dairy/eggs.
Are they trying to say vegans who show love and compassion are not normal?
I hope these people will wake up and realize that there is no difference between our companion cats/dogs and farm animals when we speak about desire to be loved and companionship.
JohnnySensible at 02/17/2011 20:04:41
Dairy farms need to be closed down.
The only 'almost happy' farmed cows that I have ever seen were in gaushallas in remote Indian villages & even there little calves often vanished to reappear as calf leather wallets.
I appreciate your last post very much Wyrdnight!
sunshine7 - 'no organization is perfect' - excellently put -I could not agree with you more!
Peta do amazing work & yes, they have also had to 'fess up' to many blunders over the years.
sunshine7 at 02/18/2011 16:42:00
How can you say cows look ok without exposing tramatic experience of mother cows when dairy farmers take away newborn babies from mother cows.
Even hardned hearted dairy farmers admit separation of mother cows and their calves is saddest experience.
below is reality in almost all dairy farms.
A young girl gotten her first job working part-time, after school at a dairy farm near the US - Canada border. When Andy's mom began to give birth, it was the first time she'd ever witnessed anything born. She was in tear. when baby came - and her horror, the farmer took Andy(male calf)and threw him behind a barn, on top of a "dead pile" of other male calves who were taken away from their mothers at birth, at let to die.
She couldn't believe what she saw.
What this brave young girl witnessed is what happening every day on nearly every farm across the country - calves are either thrown away like barbage, because they have no value, or they're enslaved in small crates to be sold for veal slaughter.
Andy is saved but think about cruel fate of other billions of male calves and mother cows tramatic experience of losing their babies before they end up in horror of slaughterhouses.
Only way for us to stop cruelty in dairy farms is to stop buying dairy products and no other way.
Ines at 02/22/2011 20:07:46
I agree that it's not perfect but it made the difference to me. I'm a vegetarian now for ten years and PETAs support made it possible. I agree with most of what they do.
It's strange to me to imagine people becoming veg just because celebrities are doing it.