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Does logic prevail?

Posted by samaiello at 05/13/2014

Please help me with this discussion. I am trying to learn about how a vegan applies logic to their way of life. I am hoping the community will send me some answers with out bitter vitriol. This question is posed with no agenda other than discovery. If vegans are opposed to animal abuse, it would follow logically that they are also opposed to abortion. Is this true? Are vegans also against abortion. If not, please help me understand your logic.


ahimsa32fa05/13/2014 07:35:21
Vegans are not one homogenous group of people.

I've known thousands, and they don't all hold identical views on many topics. That's OK by me. I would detest a world where everyone thought exactly as I such a world how could I learn anything?

I'm guessing that you may be confusing pro-choice with pro-abortion.

Like most, I do not like abortions, but I believe the final decision is for the woman to make, so I'm ultimately pro-choice.
samaiello05/13/2014 08:13:12
ahimsa. Thanks for the response. I understand your point.
ecmasonjr05/13/2014 08:36:06
I don't find it that difficult a matter to comprehend:

Vegans should be against the deliberate killing of any animal. Should the latest delicacy of carnivores turn out to be the aborted fetus of a cow, I'd be surprised if any vegans supported it.

One of the things humans are very good at is rationalization when it applies to doing things that they know in their hearts is wrong. That's how carnivores continue to exist off the pain, misery and enslavement of innocent animals with clear consciences, they rationalize it away - you've all heard the arguements a hundred times. You've also heard the abortion arguements a hundred times, it's just cells, it's part of the mother's body and she can do whatever she wants with her body, etc.

Here's the crux of the matter, is veganism about life itself, or merely about our using other life as we see fit without permission from the creatures used? If you can convince yourself that it is the latter, then you can rationalize abortion to yourself. But be very clear, if NASA found so much as one embryo cell on Mars they would shout to the heavens that they had discovered life on mars. Not potential life. Life. One cell.
samaiello05/13/2014 10:35:42
Thanks ecmasonjr.
ahimsa32fa05/14/2014 06:17:32
A living cell is not the same as "an animal", - living, conscious sentient being. If I scratch my arm, I'll have living cells under my fingernail. When I wash my hands those cells go somewhere to die. Does that make me a vegan hypocrite?

There's no such thing as a 100% pure vegan in reality. We all kill innocent creatures by accident and cannot totally avoid it. Animals die somewhere in the process of manufacturing pretty much anything in todays' world. If I ride a bus and there are dead bugs on the windshield, am I a hypocrite vegan? Would it make vegan philosophy invalid?

Is a woman killing an "animal" if she chooses not to get pregnant every time she cycles? Aren't her unused eggs dying?

What if we reverse the question? Is someone who is 100% against all abortions a hypocrite if they eat a dead cow or drink a cow's milk?

The abortion/vegan issue was created not by those who care about human fetuses as much as by those who feel threatened by vegans exposing the cruelty of the non-vegan diet and lifestyle.

By the way, "bob veal" (a calf about to be born, or just born) has been a "delicacy" for a long time.

If anti-abortion extremists really cared about all fetal "life" would they eat eggs? What about anti-abortion folks who support war?

That seems far more hypocritical than a vegan who believes in a women's choice in the matter of abortion.
ecmasonjr05/14/2014 12:58:42
I had hoped that, just once, a thread could be true to what appears to be the intent of the original poster. In this case one answer per member expressing his or her opinion on the question. As interesting as it would be to debate the issue, I don't believe this is the place, so I will not do so.
TofuMadness06/21/2014 03:05:48
I am new to this site and did not know we were only allowed one response per thread. I personally believe that discussion or debate often helps to clarify ideas and thoughts presented.

Some people are going to see this as a black and white issue and for others, including myself, it is very complex. Watching the discussion develop helps me better understand others views.

I am not pro-abortion, but I am pro-choice depending on the stage of the fetus and whether it feels pain or suffers and in situations where there is danger to the mother. This may contradict strict Vegan values, but I am also concerned about the actually pain and cruelty an unwanted child suffers after it is born.

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